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Old 08-18-2011, 06:28 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 788,760 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
The courts have ruled they are subject to civil and criminal laws, just like everybody else.
Oh, sweet, so they're subject to the jurisdiction of the US, then.

Glad we don't ever have to go down that rabbit hole again.
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Old 08-18-2011, 06:29 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,144,640 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by hothulamaui View Post
I should take the opinion of "numerous people in here who clarified particular 'liquid reigns"? lol the way it was intended, is the way the courts have backed it up time and time again. I prefer the collective minds of hundreds of USSCJ to liguid reins there is no easy button.
as for other countries, I could give a rip what they do.

unsure of what comment of mine you mean thinking I am diverting. so I can't comment. there is nothing wrong with taking the citizenship of the parents homeland. I think like you we can work some of this stuff out but the big sticking point is too divisive.

sorry again, but when you try to chip away parts of the 14th amendment, you are chipping away at all our rights. like it or not it means one and all period, which was the point and how it was meant.

I wouldn't want anyone chipping at the right to bear arms either. I don't own or shoot guns so for me a completely a non issue. however I do understand any action attempting to amend this right, puts our rights in jeopardy.
You are grasping at straws now. Why would any other part of the 14th Amendment be chipped away at and take away rights? Amendments to the Constitution have been made several times. Were those attempts to chip away rights or to improve things?

Removing your right to own a firearm would be stripping rights of a citizen. Birthright citizenship is about changing the so-called rights of foreigners here illegally. Your mixing apples with oranges now in desperation.
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Old 08-18-2011, 06:30 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 788,760 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
I would like you to cite the case that gives BRC to illegal aliens, I have already shown that Wong Kim Ark does not and that Plyler does not, that doesn't leave you with very many (any) cases left.
ahahahahaha

it's opposite day again, right?
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Old 08-18-2011, 06:34 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 788,760 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Removing your right to own a firearm would be stripping rights of a citizen. Birthright citizenship is about changing the so-called rights of foreigners here illegally. Your mixing apples with oranges now in desperation.
Wow, you're really out on a limb here. So you're claiming that constitutional rights are only for citizens? Violating the rights of non-citizens is no big deal?

Your post doesn't even make any sense, anyway. You yourself admit we're talking about constitutional amendments. There's no SUPER CONSTITUTION that says the 2nd amendment can't be amended just because that would be "stripping rights of a citizen".

ANd of course, as we've noted before, the constitution does not grant rights to citizens anyway. And the 2nd amendment doesn't say anything about citizens (as opposed to non-citizens). It only mentions the people.
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Old 08-18-2011, 06:53 PM
 
13,496 posts, read 13,968,489 times
Reputation: 11119
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
You are grasping at straws now. Why would any other part of the 14th Amendment be chipped away at and take away rights? Amendments to the Constitution have been made several times. Were those attempts to chip away rights or to improve things?

Removing your right to own a firearm would be stripping rights of a citizen. Birthright citizenship is about changing the so-called rights of foreigners here illegally. Your mixing apples with oranges now in desperation.
you do wear blinders if you can't see the USC protects everyone here, legal or not. what is good for the goose is good for the gander so to say.
any right chipped away to restrict and or exempt "people" puts all of us at risk to also be "the people getting screwed"

do you want only us citizens to have full protection?
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Old 08-18-2011, 06:56 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,711,133 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
Oh, sweet, so they're subject to the jurisdiction of the US, then.

Glad we don't ever have to go down that rabbit hole again.
Just because they are subject to civil and criminal law does not grant or
divest allegiance upon them or their children. There is no need to go down that rabbit hole again, as you stated words and phrases should be read in their context (or am I not supposed to use what you have written in another topic?), I would suggest reading the Schooner Exchange to understand the context of "within and subject to the jurisdiction" and how Brennan is using it in the same way in Plyler. Your attempted use of the phrase as determined by your definition (in mis-understanding the intent as used by Brennan) doesn't stand muster.
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Old 08-18-2011, 06:58 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,711,133 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by hothulamaui View Post
I should take the opinion of "numerous people in here who clarified particular 'liquid reigns"? lol the way it was intended, is the way the courts have backed it up time and time again. I prefer the collective minds of hundreds of USSCJ to liguid reins there is no easy button.
as for other countries, I could give a rip what they do.

unsure of what comment of mine you mean thinking I am diverting. so I can't comment. there is nothing wrong with taking the citizenship of the parents homeland. I think like you we can work some of this stuff out but the big sticking point is too divisive.

sorry again, but when you try to chip away parts of the 14th amendment, you are chipping away at all our rights. like it or not it means one and all period, which was the point and how it was meant.

I wouldn't want anyone chipping at the right to bear arms either. I don't own or shoot guns so for me a completely a non issue. however I do understand any action attempting to amend this right, puts our rights in jeopardy.
Please cite the case or cases you think grant(s) BRC to children born of illegal aliens.
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Old 08-18-2011, 07:01 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,711,133 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
ahahahahaha

it's opposite day again, right?
Only for you. The disdain is mutual, however you haven't changed anybodies minds with your Progressive rhetoric of BRC.
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Old 08-18-2011, 07:06 PM
 
Location: OCEAN BREEZES AND VIEWS SAN CLEMENTE
19,899 posts, read 15,285,252 times
Reputation: 6451
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
At the very least, if they don't pay their medical and physician bills, then don't hand them over the birth certificate. Why give them a free birth certificate that they view as a way around the immigration laws and also as their ticket into the welfare offices the rest of their lives in the USA?

The taxpayers are being gouged for all this abuse.
Should be asking those on here who see nothing wrong with this happening, we know who they are.
I guess some feel, that all the way around, they should also be handed the silver spoon on a silver platter too.
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Old 08-18-2011, 07:08 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,711,133 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
Wow, you're really out on a limb here. So you're claiming that constitutional rights are only for citizens? Violating the rights of non-citizens is no big deal?

Your post doesn't even make any sense, anyway. You yourself admit we're talking about constitutional amendments. There's no SUPER CONSTITUTION that says the 2nd amendment can't be amended just because that would be "stripping rights of a citizen".

ANd of course, as we've noted before, the constitution does not grant rights to citizens anyway. And the 2nd amendment doesn't say anything about citizens (as opposed to non-citizens). It only mentions the people.
I enjoy how you leave so much on the table when yo attempt to interpret what others are saying. I guess it's easier to put the words into someones mouth if you want to make your own argument seem like something worth while.

The BRC clause doesn't violate the right of illegal aliens (you see you change the word to non-immigrants to make some sort of legality issue out of it and attempt to completely change the discussion) as it doesn't pertain to them to begin with.

I would suggest reading the Preamble to the US Constitution where in it states "and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity". Sure "person" is used a few times, and each has its own defined meaning.

Last edited by Liquid Reigns; 08-18-2011 at 07:22 PM..
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