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You raised the idea of more people is better so I expanded that to its extreme limit. I have no opinion on what density is ideal for this country, but it will inevitably go up as the world population increases. What I do have an opinion on is letting people who break the law to get here stay here. I'm with you on our prison population though. I don't think we need to lock-up nonviolent offenders. But illegal aliens need to be detained or they'll flee. That's what's different about them and our typical non-violent offender. This is not their country. We need to send them back. They can be productive in THEIR country. I hold nothing against them whoever they are, but they cannot come here and claim right to our freedoms by breaking the law. I live in a border state by the way.
I don't support what I see as an unjust law. I don't hold people in low regard because they broke a law that shouldn't exist in the first place. I don't see people who circumvent the bureaucracy to come to the United States in search of a better life to be criminals. People should be free to come and go from a free country.
I believe in the philosophy of John Locke (et al), that all men are created equal with certain unalienable rights: their right to life, their right to freedom, and their right to their property. If they do not infringe on the life, liberty, or property of another, there should be no crime.
There are plenty of laws that aren't enforced; here in Ohio, apparently it's illegal to buy or sell pornography. Should the governor be impeached for not enforcing this?
The real question that you need to ask yourself is: Is it moral for ICE officers to burst into a non-violent family's home and arrest them because they are not citizens of the United States, and didn't go through the proper bureaucracy? Is that what you expect from a free country?
What a dumb analogy. Surely you can do better than that?
Yes, it is moral for ICE to burst into a home full of illegal aliens and arrest them. What does violence have to do with it? There are many non-violent crimes committed but there are laws against them which includes being incarcerated for committing them.
Free country? if we keep allowing every foreigner to enter our country illegally at will we will no longer be a free country. Some of these people can be terrorists or carrying deseases that could infect millions of Americans.
Just how free are we going to remain with an exploding population in this manner while we are all scrambling for jobs and resources to feed our families?
That is true, Bush spied on the American people w/ illegal wiretaps and he's the darling of ignorant and moronic people. Reagan lied, dealt w/ terrorists and funneled arms & money to an illegal group, yet he's marveled and idolized by even people more stupid than Bush lovers.
Go figure...I know see the correlation. They're anti-American, freedom hating, ignoring rule of law communists. Damn right-wing extremists.
And this has what to do with illegal immigration? Nice stereotying there of conservative Americans.
So in your opinion, as long as you give people a warning, you can morally do whatever you want to them?
"don't let the sun go down on you in this town" is an A-OK policy in your book, right? I mean, they were warned! They took the risk!
Please.
YOU live in the same town with them.
YOU pay for their kids to be in school.
YOU pay for their medical expenses.
YOU deal with the drugs they pass into the community.
YOU pay for the translation services.
Then play that little violin loudly enough for us all to hear.
I didn't say "do whatever," I said follow the rules of the country or face the consequences.
What on earth are you talking about? Where, from any of my statements, did you get the inclination that people shouldn't own their own property and have dominion over it? What does that have to do with arresting these people? Are you insinuating that they're all squatters? I'd figure that most of them probably pay rent somewhere.
In a sense Americans are the owners of the U.S. since we are citizens. So we have the right to insist that foreigners don't come here without our permission. Our immigation laws demand that illegals are detained and deported just like every other country.
They have no right to be here regardless of whether or not they are paying rent somewhere. They are probably paying rent from working a job they have no right to hold or are getting government assistance from an anchor or two or three.
So, if being jewish were made illegal, and a president refused to round up jews and put them in prisons because of their religion... he should be impeached?
Laws can be (and often are) wrong. Immigration laws in the United States are wrong. Non-violent people shouldn't be imprisoned, and people shouldn't have to navigate a ridiculous bureaucracy to come here.
When in the history of this country has someone been made illegal just based on their ethnicity or nationality? We have freedom of religion here so what the hell are you babbling about?
Our immigration laws aren't wrong they are fair and generous unless you want to ignore the fact that we take in a million legal immigrants per year. But sorry, we can't take in the whole world's poor.
I see so if a bank robber robs a bank in a non-violent manner he shouldn't be imprisoned?
What a dumb analogy. Surely you can do better than that?
Yes, it is moral for ICE to burst into a home full of illegal aliens and arrest them. What does violence have to do with it? There are many non-violent crimes committed but there are laws against them which includes being incarcerated for committing them.
Free country? if we keep allowing every foreigner to enter our country illegally at will we will no longer be a free country. Some of these people can be terrorists or carrying diseases that could infect millions of Americans.
Just how free are we going to remain with an exploding population in this manner while we are all scrambling for jobs and resources to feed our families?
Please elaborate what's wrong with the analogy? I pointed out another law on the books that is not enforced.
As to your statement about it being moral to arrest non-violent people: I wholeheartedly disagree.
And I challenge you to reflect on whether using the justification that "some of these people could can...be carrying diseases..." is not a bigoted comment. Do you really think that Mexicans (that's what you're talking about, right) are infesting the United States with disease? Do you really believe that the government protects you from getting sick by arresting them?
As to the statement about terrorists, that could be another thread entirely, but do you really believe that ICE agents are arresting terrorists?
Just how much are you willing to see your tax bill go up to pay for a full deportation of all illegals? We have illegals from Mexico, most of Central America, the Middle East, Eastern Europe, and we can expect a wave of illegal Greeks and Spanish citizens to start showing up any day now.
We are still paying for 2 wars that were put on the credit card and we are making the minimum payment to keep the credit going. We are talking about millions of people here. If you think the wars are expensive, start thinking about the costs of deportation. The cost would drop us in a deep black hole, and the only way to pay for it is from lots and lots and lots of taxes, all of which could be much better spent in hundreds of ways.
It would become another war on drugs, but with even much more money wasted completely. How much more squandering on stupidity like this can we stand?
The problem of illegal immigration is a tin can that has been kicked down the road now for almost 40 years by Presidents, Representatives and Senators alike. They are all accountable. I suggest you start by impeaching your own Representative first, then work your way up.
So in your opinion, as long as you give people a warning, you can morally do whatever you want to them?
"don't let the sun go down on you in this town" is an A-OK policy in your book, right? I mean, they were warned! They took the risk!
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut
In a sense Americans are the owners of the U.S. since we are citizens. So we have the right to insist that foreigners don't come here without our permission. Our immigation laws demand that illegals are detained and deported just like every other country.
They have no right to be here regardless of whether or not they are paying rent somewhere. They are probably paying rent from working a job they have no right to hold or are getting government assistance from an anchor or two or three.
That's the way I see it. I didn't invite you into my house (U.S.A.), you came in without my permission, I can tell you to leave.
I don't have to let someone come in my house. I bought it, I pay the bills, I bought the food, I pay the taxes.
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