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Old 09-01-2011, 09:38 AM
 
1,574 posts, read 789,566 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo View Post
...
when you reply to my posts like you do, it makes it very difficult for me to reply since when I hit the reply button your words don't appear.


But anyway...

The "criteria for uniting families" only applies to legal permanent residents (which are just a portion of all legal workers), and even then is much more limited than what citizens get access to. This isn't a significant part of the "problem" that people here complain about.

"in some cases it does affect other citizens. " - well, of course it does. It increases competition for jobs. That's a good thing for the overall economy. Yeah, some people will have to increase their skills or up their game or work harder.

The Bracero program you talk about would be unnecessary if there were generally more open borders. If people could in the general case legally come and work much more easily than they can now, then those workers would automatically get the benefits of being able to come for just particular seasonal work and return when that's over with.
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Old 09-01-2011, 11:31 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,302 posts, read 3,756,580 times
Reputation: 2524
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
when you reply to my posts like you do, it makes it very difficult for me to reply since when I hit the reply button your words don't appear.
Sorry, actually I admit ignorance on this. I have not been able to figure out how to break a message as others do. I would appreciate it if you could give me some pointers. That is as best as I can when I reply. If you send me a direct message letting me know how to avoid that it would help.

But anyway...

The "criteria for uniting families" only applies to legal permanent residents (which are just a portion of all legal workers), and even then is much more limited than what citizens get access to. This isn't a significant part of the "problem" that people here complain about.
I can understand that if they are legal residents. However, the attitude now is to give illegal residents so the families are not separated. If you are a legal resident and are productive, have a job, I have not problem applying to bring your family. It can become a significant problem when people are here illegaly and then demand their families be allowed to come, the results? More people getting social programs benefits and that does drain the government money.

"in some cases it does affect other citizens. " - well, of course it does. It increases competition for jobs.
Good economic point. However, in times like this with unemployment as it is it is not not fair to our American peers. As I said before I have no problem if the government does an assessment of skills needed. I am very sure there are jobs many Americans will not take. Then open the opportuntities for foreigners to come and do those jobs. After the assessment of skills needed foreigners that take those jobs should not be allowed and employers fined.
That's a good thing for the overall economy. Yeah, some people will have to increase their skills or up their game or work harder.
I have no problem with competition. I agree with you. However, we still have to sense of having laws and follow them as best as we can.

The Bracero program you talk about would be unnecessary if there were generally more open borders.
What open border does is that people with no skills that benefit our economy would be burden and would take away jobs from people that are here already. As sad as other people situations may be we need to take care of our own first. I am of hispanic desent but when it comes to making a choice I first take care of my fellow American whether they be white, black, or any other ethnic or racial background.
If people could in the general case legally come and work much more easily than they can now, then those workers would automatically get the benefits of being able to come for just particular seasonal work and return when that's over with.
Of course legally but we need to have a criteria what skills they have that will be a benefit to our country. That was what the Bracero program did. They brought people here to do certain jobs, mostly seasonal and they would go back to their countries of origin, take care.
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Old 09-01-2011, 12:12 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 789,566 times
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"the attitude now is to give illegal residents so the families are not separated"

Huh? I don't really know specifically what you're talking about here. There is no legal program that I know of to have the families of illegal immigrants brought into the US legally. But to the point, if they are productive and have a job, what difference does it make (with respect to this particular issue) if they're legal residents or not?

"in times like this with unemployment as it is it is not not fair to our American peers"

Possibly, but I don't think Americans are more important than any other people. Excluding non-americans from opportunities just because they were born on the wrong side of a line isn't fair either. Controlling who Americans can choose to do business with (which includes hiring) isn't fair to Americans.

We usually recognize the reduction of choice as unamerican.

"However, we still have to sense of having laws and follow them as best as we can."

Bad laws should be removed/changed, not blindly followed.

"What open border does is that people with no skills that benefit our economy would be burden and would take away jobs from people that are here already."

If they have no skills, then people with skills shouldn't be worried.

If they do have skills, then we should welcome the competition since it will benefit Americans.

"I first take care of my fellow American"

Well this is really the thing. I don't think Americans are better than other humans. Equality doesn't end at the border IMO.

"we need to have a criteria what skills they have that will be a benefit to our country"

Yes, each individual employer decides this on his own. Just like each individual consumer decides which soda to buy on his own.
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Old 09-02-2011, 07:56 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,722,338 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo View Post
Of course legally but we need to have a criteria what skills they have that will be a benefit to our country. That was what the Bracero program did. They brought people here to do certain jobs, mostly seasonal and they would go back to their countries of origin, take care.
Cesar Chavez and the UFW opposed the Bracero program, because they knew it was about bringing wages way down.

How about people realizing that there were ZERO jobs created in August and we as a nation simply do not need to bring in millions of cheap illegals or cheap anything.

Our middle class is barely hanging on.
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Old 09-02-2011, 08:00 AM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,005,771 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Our middle class is barely hanging on.
The rich want you to blame the poor.
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Old 09-02-2011, 08:06 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,722,338 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
The rich want you to blame the poor.
The rich want to continue bringing in unlimited numbers of cheap cheap labor and having it subsidized by the dwindling middle class.

The illegals didn't do anything for their own countries, and their own countries are doing better with them gone.
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Old 09-02-2011, 08:10 AM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,005,771 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
The rich want to continue bringing in unlimited numbers of cheap cheap labor and having it subsidized by the dwindling middle class.
No. The rich, sir, don't give a **** whether their labor is $5/hr or 8. These are not their concerns. These numbers only matter to people who have little. The rich have a lot. This idea that these poor immigrants from Mexico are actually the ones ****ing the middle class is embarrassing. They come here to acquire capital.
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Old 09-02-2011, 10:33 PM
 
Location: Miami
888 posts, read 606,774 times
Reputation: 658
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
I have no problem with a one day celebration of one's heritage from the nation or nations that one's ancestors came from but when it becomes a day in and day out celebration by waving foreign flags, identifying one's self by those countries first rather than this one and spitting on this nation's laws then yes it is a problem.
Again, you propogate ignorance.
US citizens first and foremost, especially those millionaires in high places, are *spitting* on our laws, and you single out immigrants.
But I bet you are pro special interest lobby groups and corporate welfare.

Also, I can celebrate my heritage every freakin day of the year, and there is nothing you can do about it.
And, I actually do celebrate it everyday.
It is perfectly legal.
That is what I love about the US. It is a collection of cultures.
And the culture needs to evolve and change.
We would never be able to do evolve if we took your dumb advice and assimilated.
The culture as it stands today is not good enough to completely assimilate into.
Instead of assmiliating, we can create our own subcultures.
I love this country for being able to do that, so try and stop me
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Old 09-03-2011, 02:18 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,722,338 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wynwood View Post
Again, you propogate ignorance.
US citizens first and foremost, especially those millionaires in high places, are *spitting* on our laws, and you single out immigrants.
But I bet you are pro special interest lobby groups and corporate welfare.

Also, I can celebrate my heritage every freakin day of the year, and there is nothing you can do about it.
And, I actually do celebrate it everyday.
It is perfectly legal.
That is what I love about the US. It is a collection of cultures.
And the culture needs to evolve and change.
We would never be able to do evolve if we took your dumb advice and assimilated.
The culture as it stands today is not good enough to completely assimilate into.
Instead of assmiliating, we can create our own subcultures.
I love this country for being able to do that, so try and stop me
Unfortunately our US culture is changing and it's why we're on a downward slope. We were once the strongest, richest nation on earth with the huge middle class. We're more and more like a hispanic culture with two classes of people and a dwindling middle class. Looks like the immigrants refusing to assimilate are winning, we're becoming just like the third world nations they abandoned.

In the Western hemisphere, the 3 countries with the highest standard of living were the USA, Canada, and Barbados. Culture had a whole lot to do with that.
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Old 09-03-2011, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Miami
888 posts, read 606,774 times
Reputation: 658
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Unfortunately our US culture is changing and it's why we're on a downward slope. We were once the strongest, richest nation on earth with the huge middle class. We're more and more like a hispanic culture with two classes of people and a dwindling middle class. Looks like the immigrants refusing to assimilate are winning, we're becoming just like the third world nations they abandoned.

In the Western hemisphere, the 3 countries with the highest standard of living were the USA, Canada, and Barbados. Culture had a whole lot to do with that.
I am sorry to break the news to you, but illegal aliens are not controlling this country. The elites are controlling it. The elites are gringos. The culture of the country is based on the gringo culture. If you want to blame someone (other than yourself) for the US downfall and the destruction of the middle class, blame the elites who institute the policies. Americans are too busy watching dancing with the stars and stuffing their faces with processed food and gaining weight. Me, I blame the American people for not proactively working to change the system and voting for politicians that do not work for the middle class interests. That is a direct product of the prevailing culture here, and it disgusts me. American people have no one to blame but themseleves for all of this. And if you keep voting Repug-Democrap, you'll have more of the same.

Blaming illegal aliens for the *downfall* of US culture smacks of racism. I do not believe illegal aliens had anything to do with the banking meltdown or the mortgage backed security scandal, or QE 1, 2 or 3, etc etc. The wealth transfer that is taking place today is not going from middle class to illegal Mexicans, rather it is being transferred from the middle class to the elites. Until you make the decision to intellectually challenge your stubborn beliefs, you'll never get to a deeper truth. I am not here to convince you of anything. I am merely debating a point. You are the only one that can decide to open your mind. There are very few transformational leaders out there that will faciliate that action for you.
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