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Old 08-27-2011, 02:15 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 792,080 times
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Wait, there's an official "dreamie" website? That speaks for all "dreamies"?

 
Old 08-27-2011, 02:39 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,844,279 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
Wait, there's an official "dreamie" website? That speaks for all "dreamies"?
I doubt they speak for ALL Dreamies. But, they do speak for many. In any case, the arrogant ingrates on their site changed my mind.

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Old 08-27-2011, 02:58 PM
 
28,906 posts, read 45,345,397 times
Reputation: 45831
Quote:
Originally Posted by All American NYC View Post
Should we have compassion on illegals?
Yes. We should compassionately arrest them and send them back to their country of origin.

Here's the thing. I'm all for the acceptance of LEGAL immigrants, whether they come from Mexico, India, China, Ireland, Nigeria, or anywhere else. That means if you are approved to immigrate to the United States and went through the appropriate legal channels, came here to work hard and obey our laws, and became a citizen of this country, then you are my equal in the voting booth, in the workplace, in my neighborhood, in my children's schools, or in a foxhole on the battlefield. No question. I think the vast majority of Americans would agree with this view.

I have a completely different view for those who simply snuck over the border, or flew into the country and decided to overstay their tourist visa. Let's my count the ways:

1) If I tell an illegal immigrant that it's perfectly okay to stay in this country, then I've essentially told all those people who have waited for permission to come here that they are chumps for following the law.

2) The United States has a sovereign right to regulate who and how many come over our frontiers. Funny thing is, if I decided to sneak into Mexico or China or Germany or any other nation on the planet and started working, there would be nary the slightest peep of protest when I was discovered and shown the border. Why is there one standard for the Unites States and one standard for everyone else?

3) There are an estimated 20,000,000 unemployed Americans in this country right now, most of them looking for work. There are an estimated 12,000,000 illegal immigrants in this country right now, most of them holding jobs on factory floors, construction sites, etc. etc. Further, those illegal aliens are typically getting paid on a lower wage scale than Americans, thereby driving down the cost of labor in a classic case of supply and demand. So not only are illegals taking jobs from Americans needing them, but they are likely affecting the wages of those Americans who are still working. The fact that any person can argue that American citizens be shut out of the workplace instead of some illegal from Honduras is downright immoral. Just like in example #1, you are telling American citizens who have worked hard and followed the rules that they are chumps for believing in the American government.

4) I've noticed that the people who are most vocal about favoring illegal immigrants remaining in this country are people such as lawyers, university professors, and clergy. Guess what all these people have in common. None of them will ever have to worry about an illegal taking their jobs, unless an ambulance chaser from Monterrey manages to sneak across the border and pass the bar exam, get a Ph.D., or get a divinity degree. So these people manage to enjoy a lot of public piety without having to pay the price with their own jobs. Phooey on them.

5) And let's not even get started on the cost/benefit ratio of illegal immigrants as opposed to their costs to American taxpayers. Right now, at a time when local, state, and Federal budgets are hemorrhaging red ink, we're supposed to pony up hundreds of billions for people who have no legal right to be here in the first place. Are you freaking kidding me?

Last edited by cpg35223; 08-27-2011 at 03:13 PM..
 
Old 08-27-2011, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,844,279 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
Yes. We should compassionately arrest them and send them back to their country of origin.

Here's the thing. I'm all for the acceptance of LEGAL immigrants, whether they come from Mexico, India, China, Ireland, Nigeria, or anywhere else. That means if you are approved to immigrate to the United States and went through the appropriate legal channels, came here to work hard and obey our laws, and became a citizen of this country, then you are my equal in the voting booth, in the workplace, in my neighborhood, in my children's schools, or in a foxhole on the battlefield. No question. I think the vast majority of Americans would agree with this view.

I have a completely view for those who simply snuck over the border, or flew into the country and decided to overstay their tourist visa. Let's my count the ways:

1) If I tell an illegal immigrant that it's perfectly okay to stay in this country, then I've essentially told all those people who have waited for permission to come here that they are chumps for following the law.

2) The United States has a sovereign right to regulate who and how many come over our frontiers. Funny thing is, if I decided to sneak into Mexico or China or Germany or any other nation on the planet and started working, there would be nary the slightest peep of protest when I was discovered and shown the border. Why is there one standard for the Unites States and one standard for everyone else.

3) There are an estimated 20,000,000 unemployed Americans in this country right now, most of them looking for work. There are an estimated 12,000,000 illegal immigrants in this country right now, most of them holding jobs on factory floors, construction sites, etc. etc. Further, those illegal aliens are typically getting paid on a lower wage scale than Americans, thereby driving down the cost of labor in a classic case of supply and demand. So not only are illegals taking jobs from Americans needing them, but they are likely affecting the wages of those Americans who are still working. The fact that any person can argue that American citizens be shut out of the workplace instead of some illegal from Honduras is downright immoral. Just like in example #1, you are telling American citizens who have worked hard and followed the rules that they are chumps for believing in the American government.

4) I've noticed that the people who are most vocal about favoring illegal immigrants remaining in this country are people such as lawyers, university professors, and clergy. Guess what all these people have in common. None of them will ever have to worry about an illegal taking their jobs, unless an ambulance chaser from Monterrey manages to sneak across the border and pass the bar exam, get a Ph.D., or get a divinity degree. So these people manage to enjoy a lot of public piety without having to pay the price with their own jobs. Phooey on them.
Spot-on!
 
Old 08-27-2011, 03:03 PM
 
Location: Tempe, Az
1,421 posts, read 1,241,021 times
Reputation: 410
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
Oh, right, it's just for their own good. Or you could, you know, just legalize them. But let's be honest, you're not going to support that, because you don't ACTUALLY care about their well being, you're just using that as an excuse.
I just want em GONE. Its the illegal aliens choice: go home peacibly or be kickd out.
 
Old 08-27-2011, 03:11 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,877,424 times
Reputation: 22174
And let's not forget that uneducated unskilled foreigners will almost surely become public burdens because the cost of living here are very very high.

Again - these are the people who cannot make it in their own low-cost of living nations, they simply cannot afford $800 a month for their health care insurance premiums, they cannot afford to pay their maternity bills, and they cannot afford a cart of groceries here every week.
 
Old 08-27-2011, 03:13 PM
 
951 posts, read 617,999 times
Reputation: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
Absolutely. Because we have immigration quotas for precisely that reason. That dispenses with your argument neatly. Sorry that you're such a sloppy thinker.
Really? So first you claimed that none of them would ever have to worry about any job of theirs being taken "unless an ambulance chaser from Monterrey manages to sneak across the border and pass the bar exam, get a Ph.D., or get a divinity degree." Now you are saying that only some will get their job stolen? Goalpost shift. Sloppy thinker what?
 
Old 08-27-2011, 03:15 PM
 
951 posts, read 617,999 times
Reputation: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
And let's not forget that uneducated unskilled foreigners will almost surely become public burdens because the cost of living here are very very high.

Again - these are the people who cannot make it in their own low-cost of living nations, they simply cannot afford $800 a month for their health care insurance premiums, they cannot afford to pay their maternity bills, and they cannot afford a cart of groceries here every week.

citation needed. We already figured using Benicar's links in another thread that only approx. 1/3 of the total illegal immigration population have kids that qualify for welfare and actually use it. In fact, the link Benicar provided said that only 57% of those with children use welfare.
 
Old 08-27-2011, 03:19 PM
 
28,906 posts, read 45,345,397 times
Reputation: 45831
Quote:
Originally Posted by huddledmasses View Post
Really? So first you claimed that none of them have to worry about any job of theirs being taken "unless an ambulance chaser from Monterrey manages to sneak across the border and pass the bar exam, get a Ph.D., or get a divinity degree." Now you are saying that only some will get their job stolen? Goalpost shift. Sloppy thinker what?
Actually, I'm spot on, whereas you seem to fit my description neatly. I'm guessing that you work in some nice, safe white collar slot that requires accreditation, a degree, and any number of other safeguards. So you can afford to spout a bunch of sanctimonious nonsense without worrying if your livelihood will be affected.

Sorry to speak the simple truth. But, given your ivory tower thinking, let me acquaint you with the reality of things. It is way harder to get a job in a law firm than it is to get a job on a construction site.

By the way, when's the last time you visited a construction site? And how much English did you hear spoken there? Something tells me that there are a lot of general laborers, brickmasons, and other construction laborers who are citizens of this country and would like nothing better than to have had those jobs. But far be it from us to be concerned about their welfare. Instead, you are far more concerned about some guy who is here illegally from Chiapas.
 
Old 08-27-2011, 03:20 PM
 
Location: Out West
20,788 posts, read 15,546,159 times
Reputation: 24323
Quote:
Originally Posted by All American NYC View Post
Should we have compassion on illegals?
Let's try something else here:

Say you emigrated from...oh...Romania. You came here with your visa or whatever, you got a green card, you wanted to be an American citizen and stay here. You went through reams of paperwork, you spent a LOT of your own money, you studied and tested, you were investigated and interrogated, (slight dramatic addition there), and after years, years of waiting, working hard, hoping, and spending a fortune, you were, FINALLY granted your wish. You went to your swearing in ceremony where you stood with other fellow new American citizens as well as born Americans who stood there to welcome you, you felt that rush of pride, you were happy, you earned it. You were now an American citizen.

How would you feel if after going through all of that, you found out that someone came to this country illegally and was given free medical care, a job, housing, a car, a license to drive, a pardon and was told they did not have to return to their country, it was ok, see, the government is feeling compassionate today.

HOW WOULD YOU HONESTLY FEEL!?
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