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Old 08-27-2011, 01:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbartlebee View Post
Regardless of why our ancestors immigrated here, they still immigrated here legally.
Not only that - but illegals actually can use their Mexican drivers licenses. The problem with that, they want one from a US state to claim legal residency even when here illegally. They can use the US state drivers license in ways they cannot use their own Mexican issued license, including using it to vote in our elections.

A Mexican drivers license is perfectly valid in many parts of the USA and certainly all along the border.

Not only that - they (illegals) can use their Mexican drivers licenses to buy liability insurance but most won't do that. There are a tiny handful that do however.
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Old 08-27-2011, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,010,077 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbartlebee View Post
Regardless of why our ancestors immigrated here, they still immigrated here legally.
How do you ultimately know? When even at a time of some process being involved (and that was to admit immigrants that arrived, not determine whether they could come), how do you know they went through that process? Dusted the chalk mark health screening annotations off their cloak while passing through Ellis Island as it were?

I´ve studied my genealogy extensively (all of my ancestors came at a time proceeding Ellis Island), and I can find passenger records for several of them. No landing records at all. In all reality, they probably just disembarked from the ship.

And as I´ve pointed out previously, their possible later citizenship didn´t depend on validating how they came, or whether they were truly eligible (the immigrant simply stated when they had arrived)...

Is it a notion that no one of that time could actually sneak off the ship, or lie how long they had been here?...
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Old 08-27-2011, 01:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
How do you ultimately know? When even at a time of some process being involved (and that was to admit immigrants that arrived, not determine whether they could come), how do you know they went through that process? Dusted the chalk mark health screening annotations off their cloak while passing through Ellis Island as it were?

I´ve studied my genealogy extensively (all of my ancestors came at a time proceeding Ellis Island), and I can find passenger records for several of them. No landing records at all. In all reality, they probably just disembarked from the ship.

And as I´ve pointed out previously, their possible later citizenship didn´t depend on validating how they came, or whether they were truly eligible (the immigrant simply stated when they had arrived)...

Is it a notion that no one of that time could actually sneak off the ship, or lie how long they had been here?...
Who the heck really cares what some great-great-great-great-great-grandparent did?

If one of my long ago ancestors stole cars (or horses) does it justify me doing the same? Or anyone else? I know a guy who had some ancestor that had been a pirate - or so he claimed, does that justify being a pirate today?

Or take the issue of slavery. Maybe someone's ancestor owned and sold slaves. Does that justify slavery somehow?
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Old 08-27-2011, 01:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ErikCortez View Post
If talkin bout illegal Mexicans. Why the USA? There are many Spanish speaking countrys they can go to.

Yeah so? Is there some unspoken "only go where your native tongue is spoken" tribal mindset here I'm missing?
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Old 08-27-2011, 01:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by huddledmasses View Post
Yeah so? Is there some unspoken "only go where your native tongue is spoken" tribal mindset here I'm missing?
Of course that makes more sense since most of these people can never learn English or don't have the desire to learn English.

If I were relocating out of the USA and could not learn another language, wouldn't it make more sense for me to go to England or Australia than to Guatemala or Poland?

Wouldn't you advise someone who spoke only English that it would be better to emigrate to an English speaking nation rather than to a country whose language he could not understand?
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Old 08-27-2011, 01:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by huddledmasses View Post
Yeah so? Is there some unspoken "only go where your native tongue is spoken" tribal mindset here I'm missing?
Y cuando fui a Mexico, aprendi espanol -- it just made sense but I was only there to visit. (and yes, I know where the acentos should go, I just don't feel like getting them)
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Old 08-27-2011, 01:57 PM
 
951 posts, read 616,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbartlebee View Post
Regardless of why our ancestors immigrated here, they still immigrated here legally.

Really? You act like all our ancestors came during a time of free immigration. Well, believe it or not we've had restrictions on immigration at varying times dating all the way back to the Chinese Exclusion Act in 1882. Most of them limited groups due to xenophobic/racist fears.
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Old 08-27-2011, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,010,077 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Who the heck really cares what some great-great-great-great-great-grandparent did?

If one of my long ago ancestors stole cars (or horses) does it justify me doing the same? Or anyone else? I know a guy who had some ancestor that had been a pirate - or so he claimed, does that justify being a pirate today?

Or take the issue of slavery. Maybe someone's ancestor owned and sold slaves. Does that justify slavery somehow?
You´ve thrown in about three more ¨greats¨ than I needed for my ancestors to come before Ellis Island was in operation...

It does matter what those ancestors did to maintain that they each came ¨legally¨. How can someone even have the basis to speculate they know the details in each particular case long ago? Isn´t that just more over-simplification?
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Old 08-27-2011, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,010,077 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Not only that - but illegals actually can use their Mexican drivers licenses. The problem with that, they want one from a US state to claim legal residency even when here illegally. They can use the US state drivers license in ways they cannot use their own Mexican issued license, including using it to vote in our elections.

A Mexican drivers license is perfectly valid in many parts of the USA and certainly all along the border...
So if they have demonstrated an ability to have a driver´s license we regard as valid, why can´t they have one here based on their current residence? In New Mexico (current topic), the driver´s license is not used to verify whether someone can vote. We have a ¨Voter´s ID¨ card and voting rosters for that.
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Old 08-27-2011, 02:43 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
You´ve thrown in about three more ¨greats¨ than I needed for my ancestors to come before Ellis Island was in operation...

It does matter what those ancestors did to maintain that they each came ¨legally¨. How can someone even have the basis to speculate they know the details in each particular case long ago? Isn´t that just more over-simplification?
Seriously I'm sure at some point in time all of us have some ancestor we wouldn't be especially proud of. Maybe someone in our family tree 300 or 400 years ago smacked his wife around -- but what of it? Make spousal abuse legal? Or what if 500 years ago one of your ancestors raped or even murdered someone. What laws need to be changed today as a result?

Today is today and we can't really lose sleep over what someone we never met did 300 years ago.

Even if you remove some of those greats - things our great great grandfathers or great great grandmothers did really aren't something we can control. You can't justify anything by some crime they decided to do.
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