U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-29-2011, 10:55 PM
 
995 posts, read 865,630 times
Reputation: 1132

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikCortez View Post
MOST illegal aliens aint hurt. An they need to go home. As an American Im AINT ashamd at chasing illegals away.
English please?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-29-2011, 10:59 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,712,641 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
Likewise, when I hire someone who happens to have been born over on the wrong side of an imaginary line, I'm not harming anyone else. Nobody else owns that job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime
some people would like to use violence to exclude large numbers of people from that competition.
You might want to take that up with State and Federal Laws/Regulations. Since you own a business (within the USA), I know you are aware of the I-9 and the required documents needed in order to legally employee a person. It would appear that the US itself owns that job, you are simply supplying it and creating a federal income based on the taxes now owed for said employee. The cost of doing business.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-29-2011, 11:02 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 789,566 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
You might want to take that up with State and Federal Laws/Regulations. Since you own a business, I know you are aware of the I-9 and the required documents needed in order to legally employee a person. It would appear that the US itself owns that job, you are simply supplying it and creating a federal income based on the taxes now owed for said employee. The cost of doing business.
It's a normative statement.

The fact that the government will send a bunch of guys with guns to stop me if I try to do certain things doesn't prove that the government "owns" that job anymore than someone who mugs me is the legitimate owner of my wallet.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-29-2011, 11:21 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,712,641 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
Are you denying that Jim Crow policies were the law? Did the blacks who opposed them lack respect for our laws? Were the protesters who broke those laws not criminals?

FWIW, blacks were not "owned property" during Jim Crow. They chose to break those laws, did they not? As they should have, since they were unjust laws meant to artificially create a caste structure. Just like immigration laws.

I wouldn't equate rapists, murderers, and burglars with protesters who broke Jim Crow laws, no. Mostly because when Rosa Parks sits in the front of the bus she's not harming anyone, not in the legal sense of causing damages the way a murderer or rapist or burglar is. Likewise, when I hire someone who happens to have been born over on the wrong side of an imaginary line, I'm not harming anyone else. Nobody else owns that job.
Jim Crow Laws were at the State and Local levels (mostly in the Democrat southern states, unless you add in miscegenation laws), not at the Federal level. Big difference. SCOTUS has ruled that Jim Crow Laws were considered "private discrimination". Plessy vs Ferguson said Jim Crow laws were constitutional as long as they allowed for "separate but equal" facilities. State-sponsored school segregation was declared unconstitutional in Brown vs Board of Education, most of the the remaining State Jim Crow Laws were later outlawed by the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

This, in no way equates to immigration laws (Federal laws) as Congress has full authority over regulating naturalization.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-29-2011, 11:23 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 789,566 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
Jim Crow Laws were at the State and Local levels (mostly in the Democrat southern states, unless you add in miscegenation laws), not at the Federal level. Big difference. SCOTUS has ruled that Jim Crow Laws were considered "private discrimination". Plessy vs Ferguson said Jim Crow laws were constitutional as long as they allowed for "separate but equal" facilities. State-sponsored school segregation was declared unconstitutional in Brown vs Board of Education, most of the the remaining State Jim Crow Laws were later outlawed by the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

This, in no way equates to immigration laws (Federal laws) as Congress has full authority over regulating naturalization.
LOL, no, sorry. The fact that group A is doing it instead of group B doesn't magically change the nature of the activity. The fact that group C once upon a time gave group A or group B approval to do those things doesn't really matter, either.

Again, this is a normative discussion. All of your points here are only relevant in a positive discussion.

Also, I'm curious to find out why you think it was relevant to point out that the southern states were predominately democrat-leaning at the time.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-29-2011, 11:31 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,712,641 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
It's a normative statement.

The fact that the government will send a bunch of guys with guns to stop me if I try to do certain things doesn't prove that the government "owns" that job anymore than someone who mugs me is the legitimate owner of my wallet.
It would have been "normative" had you worded it differently.
Possession is 9/10's of the law (this is an "expression"), it would be the muggers wallet unless you had witnesses or were able to prove that he took it.

The government would merely audit your I-9 and monthly (quarterly) tax payments, doubtful they would send armed guys, more like IRS and ICE agents.

Last edited by Liquid Reigns; 08-29-2011 at 11:41 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-29-2011, 11:35 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,712,641 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
LOL, no, sorry. The fact that group A is doing it instead of group B doesn't magically change the nature of the activity. The fact that group C once upon a time gave group A or group B approval to do those things doesn't really matter, either.

Again, this is a normative discussion. All of your points here are only relevant in a positive discussion.

Also, I'm curious to find out why you think it was relevant to point out that the southern states were predominately democrat-leaning at the time.
You may consider them (yours) as "normative", when everybody elses arguments are in fact "positive".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-30-2011, 12:12 AM
 
Location: OCEAN BREEZES AND VIEWS SAN CLEMENTE
19,899 posts, read 15,293,898 times
Reputation: 6451
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnneWest View Post
The sort of work most illegals do is usually something so low that we spoiled Americans wouldn't stand for it.
Does Immigration Cost Jobs? | FactCheck.org

Go ahead, tell me how unemployed Americans has anything to do with Christian charity and good will toward all.

Oh really, tell that to the idiot contractor that did work on my home last year, a huge huge remodeling project.

He bid too low on my project way too low, his fault not mine.

To save a buck, he hired illegal painters, carpenters, roofers, wallboard, electricians need i go on. Until i figured out what was going on, an illegal himself i mention this in another thread, told me how much he makes, and it is not peanuts. Maybe a bit less, but the contractor is also not paying taxes, nice ha. Give me a break, the illegal himself told me, that they have a easy life here, as long as Americans will keep on hiring them.

They do not all do jobs Americans will not due, i know some illegals who have pretty good jobs. A guy that does tile work and woodworking, he makes very good money, but again, pays no taxes, he has told me so. When i realized what the contractor was doing, wanted to see everyone's legal papers, the contractor and i had a bit of a problem. He knew from that point, the guys all had to go, and guess what they went, i did not want them doing work on my home. They painted like crap, could not for the life of them put wallboard on straight, their tile worked sucked, he had to bring all new guyes in that were citizens, or his butt was on the line. I had already made phone calls. Got all new guys, and yes they were citizens, but from that point on me and the contrator, did not see eye to eye. Actually he found out that my hubby and I knew more about remodeling then he did.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-30-2011, 05:47 AM
 
1,574 posts, read 789,566 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
You may consider them (yours) as "normative", when everybody elses arguments are in fact "positive".
Really? No. Perhaps you should go look that word up. When people say "children of illegals should not be citizens," or "we should end wet foot/dry foot" or even "we should deport all illegals" they are making normative arguments whether they know it or not.

If everyone were making positive arguments there wouldn't be much to discuss. There is very, very little confusion about what the status quo is (though occasionally they are interesting only because you show how little understanding you have of how things actually are, eg:

Births by U.S. visitors: A real issue?

http://www.city-data.com/forum/20411108-post229.html

etc)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-30-2011, 07:14 AM
 
Location: Tempe, Az
1,421 posts, read 1,238,350 times
Reputation: 410
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnneWest View Post
The sort of work most illegals do is usually something so low that we spoiled Americans wouldn't stand for it.
Does Immigration Cost Jobs? | FactCheck.org

Go ahead, tell me how unemployed Americans has anything to do with Christian charity and good will toward all.
Tell THAT to my American friends who CANT find any sort of job. If talkin bout ag work; maybe 3 per cent of illegal aliens do that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top