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Old 09-01-2011, 08:39 AM
 
Location: Massachusetts
10,032 posts, read 6,860,628 times
Reputation: 4207

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Quote:
Originally Posted by .highnlite View Post

The same way the rest of the undocumented get jobs without SSN, or, we can follow up the Dream Act (which properly should be called, keep the kids out of jail and gangs act) with an inclusion act.

The same way? You mean the illegal way. A little fraud never hurt anyone, eh?
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Old 09-01-2011, 08:42 AM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,385,999 times
Reputation: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by .highnlite View Post
Or, we make good tax paying members of society out of them.
That's not our responsibility. We're not here to provide economic opportunity for the entire world let alone Mexico's underclass. If they want a good job well let them get one somewhere else.

Quote:
An excellent point, Californians do not want to visit the sins of the fathers upon the sons, and daughters, seems moral to me.
Alternatively you shouldn't be rewarded because your parents did something wrong.

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Economics encourage migration to America. Please remember we are talking about the children of those who immigrated here. Please remember too that the "illegals" pay exactly the taxes you do.
Many of them are high school drop outs who don't pay any taxes at all. We are not responsible for greedy employers or a badly behaved foreign underclass that would rather drop out of school and move here instead of trying to make something of themselves in their own country.

Quote:
I don't think your theory holds water, the illegals are here, not because of liberals, but because of the conservative business men who need their labor.
My fellow liberals should not reward for it. All that does is punish the middle class. It isn't fair to ask us to pay more taxes so as to subsidize the need desires of greedy employers and lazy line skippers.

Quote:
Our country has been built on immigration, using the terms legal or illegal is just a temporal political position. Blaming "liberals" or "hippies" makes a certain section of the political spectrum, but is not borne out by the facts.
Legal immigration that did not seek subsidies and understood that our laws are to be respected not used as a means of picking American taxpayer's pockets.

There's a huge difference between someone who comes here with fluent English and having been vetted for contagious diseases and someone who just strolls in without permission and then whines when we demand he leave.


Quote:
The same way the rest of the undocumented get jobs without SSN, or, we can follow up the Dream Act (which properly should be called, keep the kids out of jail and gangs act) with an inclusion act.
The Dream Act should be called the Pick American Taxpayer Pockets and Provide Free Education to Foreign Nationals Act. If foreign nationals commit further crimes the answer is deportation not taxpayer funded college degrees.


Quote:
You need to understand that "liberals" and those vested in cheap labor are at opposite ends of the spectrum and those vested in cheap labor and opposite ends of the political spectrum.

Anyone who thinks California "is going down the tubes fast", needs to get out more.
Many of us liberals hate illegals just as much as conservatives. They hurt our middle class, create a divided society and make a mockery of our laws.
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Old 09-01-2011, 08:44 AM
 
Location: Out in the Badlands
10,395 posts, read 8,349,307 times
Reputation: 7679
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
Here are a couple more coming out of the Legislature. Glad there's enough money for all the derserving legal students even after the illegals have been allowed to pay in-state tuition.

Capitol Alert: Bill approved to allow illegal immigrants on paid campus boards

California PE.com | Southern California News | News for Inland Southern California
Liberalism is a mental disorder.
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Old 09-01-2011, 08:53 AM
 
1,574 posts, read 789,250 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
So what are you proposing?
Did you read my post?
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Old 09-01-2011, 08:54 AM
 
1,574 posts, read 789,250 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Roma View Post
Having a college degree is great and all but how do you propose that these illegals will get a job after graduation without a SSN?
How about this revolutionary idea: we make it easier for them to get a legitimate one?
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Old 09-01-2011, 09:04 AM
 
1,574 posts, read 789,250 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
That's not our responsibility. We're not here to provide economic opportunity for the entire world let alone Mexico's underclass. If they want a good job well let them get one somewhere else.
This is horribly backward thinking. The economy isn't a zero-sum game. If you continue looking at everything as an us-vs.-them battle then you're going to restrict yourself to this sort of doom-and-gloom outlook forever.
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Old 09-01-2011, 09:19 AM
 
Location: Orange County, CA
3,730 posts, read 5,090,581 times
Reputation: 4170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
Many of us liberals hate illegals just as much as conservatives. They hurt our middle class, create a divided society and make a mockery of our laws.
You cannot possibly be a liberal, your comments are far too accurate and make too much sense. No liberal is capable of such logic. Out of curiosity, paged back and read many of your earlier posts. With a few exceptions, pretty much agreed with most of them, and I am very conservative. Perhaps you belong to a school of ideology considered extinct today, Classical Liberalism, quite different from the Marxism of modern liberals/progressives.
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Old 09-01-2011, 09:42 AM
 
Location: California
4,445 posts, read 5,171,064 times
Reputation: 9180
Eleanora, you said it well.

I see nothing wrong with limiting immigration to people who have the means to support themselves, as other countries do, so as not to take basic resources away from tax paying citizens. It is as simple as that. You pay to play - that is the way of the law abiding citizens who do have the self respect to work, pay taxes, and abide by our laws. If they don't like our laws then they should stay home and be the change they want to be in their own back yard. We don't need them wasting our resources, and especially handing out college diplomas, just because they whine as that lowers the American standards.
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Old 09-01-2011, 09:42 AM
 
1,574 posts, read 789,250 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackShoe View Post
You cannot possibly be a liberal, your comments are far too accurate and make too much sense. No liberal is capable of such logic. Out of curiosity, paged back and read many of your earlier posts. With a few exceptions, pretty much agreed with most of them, and I am very conservative. Perhaps you belong to a school of ideology considered extinct today, Classical Liberalism, quite different from the Marxism of modern liberals/progressives.
Classical liberalism advocates for a free market for both capital and labor.
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Old 09-01-2011, 09:50 AM
 
1,574 posts, read 789,250 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heidi60 View Post
Eleanora, you said it well.

I see nothing wrong with limiting immigration to people who have the means to support themselves, as other countries do, so as not to take basic resources away from tax paying citizens. It is as simple as that. You pay to play - that is the way of the law abiding citizens who do have the self respect to work, pay taxes, and abide by our laws. If they don't like our laws then they should stay home and be the change they want to be in their own back yard.
So you want to cut off the poor people who are free riding off the productive people?

Quote:
We don't need them wasting our resources, and especially handing out college diplomas, just because they whine as that lowers the American standards.
Is there a finite supply of diplomas? As far as I can tell, nobody has advocated that they be "handed out," can you explain? Also, how would increasing the number of college-educated people LOWER "American standards"???
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