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Old 09-03-2011, 09:17 AM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,005,127 times
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lol Jesus malamute. Are you really not understanding his point?

The CAUSE of the harm that those crimes effect is separate from the question of whether it is legal or not. c-nut said that the negative impacts were the RESULT of them being here illegally. If that were the case, making them legal would remove the negative impacts. That is the logical conclusion of her statement, not a statement I'm making.
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Old 09-03-2011, 09:20 AM
 
1,574 posts, read 788,884 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
You aren't making much sense.

It would be true of everything - legalize tax evasion, then not paying taxes wouldn't be a crime, legalize slavery, then owing slaves wouldn't be against the law, legalize embezzlement, legalize extorsion. Legalize dead beat fathers, then they wouldn't be evading the laws.
NO, it is NOT true of everything. The NEGATIVE IMPACTS of murder are NOT a result of killing people ILLEGALY. They're a result of KILLING people. It doesn't matter if "the law" says it's OK or not, if someone murders you you're DEAD. The BEING DEAD is the negative part. Not the "a law was broken" part.
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Old 09-03-2011, 09:24 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
lol Jesus malamute. Are you really not understanding his point?

The CAUSE of the harm that those crimes effect is separate from the question of whether it is legal or not. c-nut said that the negative impacts were the RESULT of them being here illegally. If that were the case, making them legal would remove the negative impacts. That is the logical conclusion of her statement, not a statement I'm making.
Yes it is a negative impact for them to break whatever laws that don't suit them to be here illegally.

Illegals don't have a problem coming up with $5000 to pay a cartel smuggler to break our laws, they can come up with nice cash to buy stolen social security numbers and commit Identity Theft.

Yes illegal in itself has negative impacts. Look at some of the big burial pits just outside the border because the cartels are fighting over the very lucrative business of illegals and say it doesn't have a negative impact.

Many millions of people coming here illegally to take jobs has a very large (very noticeable now) negative impact.

If they had to come legally, there would be limits on how many would come, the jobs would have to be offered at least superficially to Americans first. That would certainly be positive in that more Americans woud have jobs.
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Old 09-03-2011, 09:26 AM
 
Location: N Atlanta
4,597 posts, read 3,220,379 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
But if we legalized them, of course, they'd "belong" to us in the same sense.
Sure, go ahead and legalize them, and the tsunami of illegals would get larger and larger. What do we do with the next 10 million, and the 10 million after that, and so on ? Who's going to subsidize these new "legal" immigrants and get them jobs in an economy where jobs are scarce ? And legalizing them is just poor policy in general as I guess we would have to give green cards to all of those who applied according to the current immigration rules ... where would it end ? When every piece of open space in the U.S. was snatched up ? Why is it our burden to take other country's poor and feed and clothe them ?
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Old 09-03-2011, 09:38 AM
 
Location: in a cabin overlooking the mountains
3,079 posts, read 3,574,532 times
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This thread does not belong under "Illegal Immigration" and furthermore has a misleading title.

It is also very similar to another thread.
4.2 Billion to illegals for Child Tax Credit.. Unbelievable

Interestingly that thread cites a different article as "proof" which has very similar wording to the article cited by OP in this thread.

I'm not going to re-type a custom post for this thread so I'll just post the link to my response onthe other thread.
http://www.city-data.com/forum/20726418-post21.html

Honestly stamping out ignorance of basic civics is like trying to kill cockroaches.

And no doubt I'll get an outraged chain email from one of my conservative friends clamiing that so-and-so many billions of dollars were doled out to "illegal aliens" because most Americans have no clue how ITINs work.

<goes to look for the smiley that is banging its head into the wall...>
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Old 09-04-2011, 01:50 AM
 
Location: Native Floridian, USA
4,896 posts, read 5,864,783 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by All American NYC View Post
This surprises me if they know who is receiving these funds why isn't more being done to stop it?
Bingo !

I read today of the arrest, so far, of around 49 people that were practicing tax fraud, in the billions. They had seminars to tell you how to do it. Authorities said they thought it was just the tip of the iceberg. I wondered if it was in regards to illegal aliens but my newspaper if owned by the NYT's and they never say anything about illegal aliens. You can't even get a Letter to the Editor printed if it is about immigration......

http://www2.tbo.com/news/politics/20...lin-ar-254724/
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Old 09-04-2011, 06:10 AM
 
Location: in a cabin overlooking the mountains
3,079 posts, read 3,574,532 times
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It used to be that even though the IRS expected you to report ALL of your income, including income from illegal activities such as embezzlement or drug deals, you could be certain that the IRS would not share that information with other agencies.

That changed recently (finally(!)).

Federal Statutes - Money Laundering (http://www.irs.gov/compliance/enforcement/article/0,,id=113004,00.html - broken link)
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Old 09-04-2011, 07:41 AM
 
Location: in a cabin overlooking the mountains
3,079 posts, read 3,574,532 times
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Noooo that same thing cannot be said for Obama because he ain't done it (yet). Thankfully neither did Bush - how many did he want to open the door to, 12 Million?

Reagan opened the door to 3 million, which means a lot more couches were available for their friends and relatives to sleep on - MORE illegals!

We as a country did ourselves enormous harm by changing our immigration policy to favor reuniting families as opposed to favoring hard workers.

Taking the two together - amnesty for illegals 25 years ago and generous visa policies for family members, it's no wonder we have the mess we have now.
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Old 09-04-2011, 08:45 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrugalYankee View Post
Noooo that same thing cannot be said for Obama because he ain't done it (yet). Thankfully neither did Bush - how many did he want to open the door to, 12 Million?

Reagan opened the door to 3 million, which means a lot more couches were available for their friends and relatives to sleep on - MORE illegals!

We as a country did ourselves enormous harm by changing our immigration policy to favor reuniting families as opposed to favoring hard workers.

Taking the two together - amnesty for illegals 25 years ago and generous visa policies for family members, it's no wonder we have the mess we have now.
Obama did just enact an amnesty, a pretty sizeable one. 300,000 have now been given amnesty and don't think they won't be bringing in long lost loved ones.

I think Obama is trying his damnest to please the La Raza groups and also their Mexican government (hint - Fast and Furiious) but with so many Americans out of work and unemployment rising, and zero jobs being created, he may not have dared yet to amnesty more than 300,000 but I'm sure he's got plans to amnesty the rest as soon as he can.

With this amnesty showing how absolutely little he cares about the unemployed Americans, he will soon know that he's lost votes of Americans. That leaves him with the La Raza votes and they won't be happy until he does exactly everything they tell him to do. He very likely could just decide they can bring in enough votes and do just that.
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Old 09-04-2011, 08:53 AM
 
Location: in a cabin overlooking the mountains
3,079 posts, read 3,574,532 times
Reputation: 2247
Wait a second.

Obama did not grant amnesty to 300,000, what he did was to halt deportations of 300,000 illegal aliens pending individual reviews.

Not that I don't think that stinks (pardon the double negative) since if we know they are here illegally I think we need to toss them out - period. No "review" necessry.

I'm not disagreeing with the thrust of your argument, just being picky about the details of calling case-by-case review the same thing as amnesty.
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