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Old 09-03-2011, 06:07 AM
 
Location: in a cabin overlooking the mountains
3,079 posts, read 3,574,532 times
Reputation: 2247

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Well who the heck is giving them taxpayer ID numbers without requiring proof that they can be here legally ?

Seems every USG agency claims that "they" have no authority to ask. THEY are the authority for crying out loud..they are an agency of the Federal Government.
What the hell is going on with our government ?????

And if I read tomorrow that somehow these "undocumented workers" are now receiving SS checks for all their years worked I WOULD NOT BE THE LEAST BIT SURPRISED !!!
I think there is a basic misunderstanding of ITINs.
Also the thread title is MISLEADING.

ITINS are issued in lieu of SS #s when the person in question is not authorized to work in the US. Now I realize that in some peoples' minds this equates to illegal aliens but this is simply NOT TRUE.

Example from my own experience. I was living abroad and married to a non US citizen. As an American I was required to file a US tax return. If I wanted to file as "married filing jointly" I had to fill out the IRS forms with my husbands SS#. Problem was, he didn't have one, didn't need one, and couldn't get one. Solution - request an ITIN. So anyone saying that ITINs are there for illegal aliens to bilk the US tax system has no credibility with me.

There may well be illegal aliens who request and obtain ITINs but frankly they would have to be nuts. Why would someone voluntarily announce their presence to a Federal US Agency? And read the article as opposed to the misleading title of this thread and the title of the article given to it by that moron Ed O'Keefe.

Here is the only quantitative factual statement from the article:
Quote:
Their data showed that 72 percent of returns filed with taxpayer identification numbers claimed the child tax credit.
This could mean that a head of household who is legally allowed to work in the US married to a non-resident or resident alien legally in the US with an ITIN who is married filing jointly claimed the credit.

It could also mean that the child is the one with the ITIN, not the parent.
Child Tax Credit (http://www.irs.gov/faqs/faq/0,,id=199782,00.html - broken link)

Now if there is fraud I am all for giving the IRS authority to red flag returns for transfer to other Federal Agencies. But let's call a spade a spade yes? And not get hysterical because someone who doesn't udnerstand the tax system publishes an attention-getting headline.

And while we're on the topic - you do all know that kickbacks are considered taxable income by the IRS, right?
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p525.pdf
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Old 09-03-2011, 07:38 AM
 
Location: LawnGuyLind, NY / Sarasota, FL
1,595 posts, read 2,359,376 times
Reputation: 1080
Thanks for that explanation. I do think it changes my view of the situation somewhat.
Seems it is like most any other government OR PRIVATE program - it has a valid & useful purpose, but still, the possibility of scamming and abusing the system exists.
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Old 09-03-2011, 08:02 AM
 
Location: Massachusetts
10,032 posts, read 6,859,367 times
Reputation: 4207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossfire600 View Post
Undocumented workers got billions from IRS in tax credits, audit finds - The Federal Eye - The Washington Post

If we would sit down and eliminate these types of hand-outs I bet we could get upward of 500 billion if not more.. I sit here and think about how folks chastise the Tea Party who wants to rid the government of this type of entitlements and it just doesn't make sense.. I'm not a Tea Partier but how can ANYONE make sense of this type of entitlement other than potential new voters? The more waste and entitlement funding I see pouring out of this government the more pissed I get...

You have a problem with this?

You know what that means- right?

Well, then you're a racist.
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Old 09-03-2011, 12:20 PM
 
Location: in a cabin overlooking the mountains
3,079 posts, read 3,574,532 times
Reputation: 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
And if I read tomorrow that somehow these "undocumented workers" are now receiving SS checks for all their years worked I WOULD NOT BE THE LEAST BIT SURPRISED !!!
I missed this part of the post in my earlier reply.

Obviously some people do not know the difference between the IRS and the Social Security Administration.

The IRS uses the SS# to track taxes paid, and the SSA uses the SS# to track SS and Medicare payments paid into and out of the system.

If you are an employee, your employer deducts 5.2 % of your wages from your gross pay and matches that for a total of 10.4 % and pays it to the IRS, who transfers it to the SSA for your SS account. The same goes for Medicare except that 1.45 % of gross pay is deducted. Federal witholding is also deducted according to your tax status. However that money does not go to the SSA.

If you are self-employed, you pay a self-employment tax of 13.3 % which goes to the SSA through the IRS - 10.2 % for the SS and 2.9 % for Medicare all by yourself.

Your tax refund has NOTHING to do with the SSA. All the IRS does is collect the money. So taking a tax situation and trying to transfer it to the SSA does not make sense, especially if you are talking about an ITIN.
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Old 09-05-2011, 09:30 PM
 
3,951 posts, read 3,582,217 times
Reputation: 1270
I don't understand how people who support illegal immigration can ignore this. It is really sad that those of us who are legally here aren't being protected from this.
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Old 09-07-2011, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Alaska
6,306 posts, read 4,175,363 times
Reputation: 3719
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aganusn View Post
That ridiculous, illegal babies shouldn't get anything from my government! :P
Correct, the parents should be sent back to the country they came from along with Junior.. Glad you see it our way finally...
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Old 09-07-2011, 03:33 PM
 
Location: Alaska
6,306 posts, read 4,175,363 times
Reputation: 3719
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Roma View Post
You have a problem with this?

You know what that means- right?

Well, then you're a racist.
Nope, it means that I expect these people to come into the country the same way my grand parents did, pass the test, become citizens, contribute to the economy and their community. Not sneak through a fence and expect free hand outs..
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Old 09-07-2011, 03:44 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrugalYankee View Post
I think there is a basic misunderstanding of ITINs.
Also the thread title is MISLEADING.

ITINS are issued in lieu of SS #s when the person in question is not authorized to work in the US. Now I realize that in some peoples' minds this equates to illegal aliens but this is simply NOT TRUE.

Example from my own experience. I was living abroad and married to a non US citizen. As an American I was required to file a US tax return. If I wanted to file as "married filing jointly" I had to fill out the IRS forms with my husbands SS#. Problem was, he didn't have one, didn't need one, and couldn't get one. Solution - request an ITIN. So anyone saying that ITINs are there for illegal aliens to bilk the US tax system has no credibility with me.
There may well be illegal aliens who request and obtain ITINs but frankly they would have to be nuts. Why would someone voluntarily announce their presence to a Federal US Agency? And read the article as opposed to the misleading title of this thread and the title of the article given to it by that moron Ed O'Keefe.

Here is the only quantitative factual statement from the article:


This could mean that a head of household who is legally allowed to work in the US married to a non-resident or resident alien legally in the US with an ITIN who is married filing jointly claimed the credit.

It could also mean that the child is the one with the ITIN, not the parent.
Child Tax Credit (http://www.irs.gov/faqs/faq/0,,id=199782,00.html - broken link)

Now if there is fraud I am all for giving the IRS authority to red flag returns for transfer to other Federal Agencies. But let's call a spade a spade yes? And not get hysterical because someone who doesn't udnerstand the tax system publishes an attention-getting headline.

And while we're on the topic - you do all know that kickbacks are considered taxable income by the IRS, right?
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p525.pdf

Sorry, but millions of illegal aliens have applied for and received an ITIN. Actually, the IRS has realized for years they’re issuing these numbers to illegals. Clearly, they don’t care. Otherwise, they would require proof of legal status, which they do not. The fact that the EITC is disallowed under this tax filing procedure, yet the IRS has issued billions in tax credits, only serves to illustrate the level of ineptitude existing at this agency. Sadly, this is not the first time the IRS has erroneously issued billions in tax credits and refunds to ineligible “non-citizen” filers, including illegal aliens. Their First-Time Homebuyer Tax Credit (FTHBC) a few years ago was another debacle exploited by illegals, costing taxpayers millions.

Moreover, according to certain pro-illegals, the ITIN is widely used by illegals, and is a primary source for determining their tax contributions. I'm surprised none have posted on this thread. This, and other fraud, should have been audited years ago. Unfortunately, even prior to this audit, untold millions/billions had already been paid to illegals which will NEVER be recouped. Never underestimate illegal aliens. They are well-versed on how to fleece this nation. Furthermore, illegals aren’t afraid of announcing their status to the federal government. In fact, they often flaunt it, as evidenced by their brazen protests outside ICE offices, and sit-ins at the offices of members of Congress. They know nothing will be done.

The Washington Post is as pro-illegal as they come. If this article had no credibility, they wouldn’t report it. Actually, I am shocked they did.


Quote:
What is an ITIN?

An Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN) is a tax processing number issued by the Internal Revenue Service. IRS issues ITINs to individuals who are required to have a U.S. taxpayer identification number but who do not have, and are not eligible to obtain a Social Security Number (SSN) from the Social Security Administration (SSA).ITINs are issued regardless of immigration status because both resident and nonresident aliens may have a U.S. filing or reporting requirement under the Internal Revenue Code.

An ITIN does not authorize work in the U.S. or provide eligibility for Social Security benefits or the Earned Income Tax Credit.
General ITIN Information
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Old 09-07-2011, 03:57 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 788,884 times
Reputation: 124
Right, the reason ITIN are issued regardless of immigration status is that all income is taxable whether you are legal or not, whether the method used to earn it is legal or not.

So basically the argument here totally undermines those other pillars of illegal-bashing, "they don't pay taxes" and "they're stealing our SSNs".

Basically this post boils down to "they paid taxes and followed the rules for paying them."
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Old 09-07-2011, 04:07 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
Right, the reason ITIN are issued regardless of immigration status is that all income is taxable whether you are legal or not, whether the method used to earn it is legal or not.

So basically the argument here totally undermines those other pillars of illegal-bashing, "they don't pay taxes" and "they're stealing our SSNs".

Basically this post boils down to "they paid taxes and followed the rules for paying them."
Not if they claimed the EITC using their ITIN, which apparently they did to the tune of over $4 Billion. But then, what’s to be expected? After all, they ignore ALL of our laws, so why should this be an exception?
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