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Old 09-05-2011, 11:45 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
Of course they can.
Oh yeah, with their stolen social security numbers and stolen identification documents.
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Old 09-05-2011, 12:54 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Oh yeah, with their stolen social security numbers and stolen identification documents.
No, I mean they are capable of understanding contracts sufficiently.
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Old 09-05-2011, 01:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
No, I mean they are capable of understanding contracts sufficiently.
Not if they can't speak English and read and write, and understand the laws and culture of the USA.

In fact you could argue that an 8th grade child could know more English and understand what's written in a contract than some 3rd grade drop out from a foreign country who can never learn a lick of English.
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Old 09-05-2011, 02:01 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,881,481 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
No, I mean they are capable of understanding contracts sufficiently.
I thought the argument was about businesses not being allowed to hire who they want regardless of laws?
I mean the businesses know whats best for business. Who cares whats best for anyone else right?
Because a business will pass on the savings from the laws they broke to the consummer so we all win.
And those illegals the ones with stolen ID's will pay all their taxes and the ones who dont have stolen ID's pay sales tax so its all good.
Or
maybe the businesses that use illegals pocket the money and no one but the greedy profit. Maybe just maybe the reasons these people hire illegals isn't due to needs of business but pure greed.
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Old 09-05-2011, 02:02 PM
 
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So contracts don't work in any language other than English???

I learn something every day in this forum.
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Old 09-05-2011, 02:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Not if they can't speak English and read and write, and understand the laws and culture of the USA.
Not a single one of these things is necessary to adequately contract.
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Old 09-05-2011, 02:31 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
Not a single one of these things is necessary to adequately contract.
Sure they are. Why do you think so many illegals got suckered into poor subprime loans they could not end up paying? And why there are so many articles about illegals being victims of con artists and fraud?

When you cannot read or write or ever learn any English, you are very vulnerable. When you don't know the difference between a notary public and a lawyer, you can easily be made a sucker for scams.

Remember, these are people who couldn't make it in their own countries, they know nothing of our culture, our laws, our language. Again, many American 8th graders would be a lot more savvy about contracts.
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Old 09-05-2011, 02:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
I thought the argument was about businesses not being allowed to hire who they want regardless of laws?
I mean the businesses know whats best for business. Who cares whats best for anyone else right?
Uh, no. The rights of the parties involved are very much important. The business may well benefit from child labor, or slave labor, but it violates the rights of the laborer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Because a business will pass on the savings from the laws they broke to the consummer so we all win.
That actually is true - child labor or slave labor might drive down prices. But we obviously weigh that against the trade-off, which is quite severe.
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Old 09-05-2011, 02:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Sure they are. Why do you think so many illegals got suckered into poor subprime loans they could not end up paying? And why there are so many articles about illegals being victims of con artists and fraud?
...I'm not sure what you're saying. Yes, not being able to read a contract properly hurts your ability to even agree to it legally. But that's not the same as being able to contract, which most adults obviously are.


Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
When you cannot read or write or ever learn any English, you are very vulnerable. When you don't know the difference between a notary public and a lawyer, you can easily be made a sucker for scams.
OK? Most Americans don't know this difference. I could write a contract right now that most people would think sounds great but would actually rob them blind. Speaking Spanish only and contracting with someone in English is a disadvantage for either party depending on the context. A Spanish speaking boss can put an English-only worker in the same exact position. There's nothing about speaking Spanish only that makes you inherently unable to agree to a contract. That's...ridiculous.
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Old 09-06-2011, 07:12 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
...I'm not sure what you're saying. Yes, not being able to read a contract properly hurts your ability to even agree to it legally. But that's not the same as being able to contract, which most adults obviously are.




OK? Most Americans don't know this difference. I could write a contract right now that most people would think sounds great but would actually rob them blind. Speaking Spanish only and contracting with someone in English is a disadvantage for either party depending on the context. A Spanish speaking boss can put an English-only worker in the same exact position. There's nothing about speaking Spanish only that makes you inherently unable to agree to a contract. That's...ridiculous.
Sure, speaking Spanish only gives you a distinct advantage over a typical English-only speaker -- in a hispanic country, but most definitely not here.

There are many articles about the poor Spanish speaking victims of fraud and scams. Many. And many were "tricked" by unscrupulous real estate con artists who convinced them to buy big expensive houses they could never afford on their sub-par wages.

You can google this yourself, but also keep in mind that the illegals coming here weren't exactly making it back in their own country where they speak the language and know the culture.
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