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Old 09-05-2011, 09:23 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 790,138 times
Reputation: 124

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Quote:
Originally Posted by clsicmovies View Post
Way back then conditions were as different as day and night. We did not have a welfare state then that citizens paid for, and we had way more space. Today there is less than 10,000 square miles of land left in the U.S. and that is not all useable.
Yeah, we're not running out of space. Sorry.
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Old 09-05-2011, 09:33 PM
 
841 posts, read 790,390 times
Reputation: 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
Yeah, the problem with this is that keeping immigrants out isn't going to fix that problem. Most economists agree immigrants are a net positive and even the most biased anti-immigrant hate groups out there think they only cost a tiny fraction of the overall deficit.

The economic argument is completely bogus.
Lucky most don't believe this lie. The facts are that both illegal and legal immigrants cost us much in public social services many billions just for california per year. in California, 82% of all welfare paid out in 2010 was to illegal alien families. Illegals are a positive to corporations but to the Ameican people they are a big negative net loss. We do not want to pay for illegals anymore.

We have way too little space left, cities are overcrowded and largely with illegals near the Mexican border. This has much hampered Americans way of life and we are beyond sick of it.
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Old 09-05-2011, 09:48 PM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,006,230 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by clsicmovies View Post
Lucky most don't believe this lie. The facts are that both illegal and legal immigrants cost us much in public social services many billions just for california per year. in California, 82% of all welfare paid out in 2010 was to illegal alien families.
Luckily we have people like you, ready to sift through the lies and stuff.
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Old 09-06-2011, 03:13 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
49 posts, read 59,405 times
Reputation: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
Interesting. I specifically set it up so Americans would not be supporting these people and you STILL dont want them here. Sorry, but your harping about how it's not racist to oppose something I didn't even ask you to support is not really convincing me of anything. Either you didn't read the question or your script you follow when answering these questions doesn't cover this question so you just copied the answer to some other question.
And what if we could get elephants to fly by flapping their ears? Neither is going to happen, so letís not play the game of hypotheticals.

Well if you're trying to imply that there must be something wrong with my character for not wholeheartedly jumping on board with your proposal then you're reaffirming what I said about you being a bully. Maybe it's not in your reality that someone can have a legitimate reason to disagree with you, but you can't intimidate me into changing my mind. Luckily, I'm not the type of person who has any reason to be afraid of that stuff, so I can openly stick up for what I believe is right. You can really give all of your suspicion crap a rest now

I genuinely feel bad that you have such a negative perception of people. You must have had some pretty bad experiences and I think I can relate to some of that. There will always be a few ignorant imbeciles who will discriminate based on race. But when you assume everyone is that way regardless then that is a serious problem. You may not realize it, but you're so trapped in your ego it's not even funny. Maybe if you stopped projecting your own reality onto others, you might actually see things from their perspective. The truth is most Americans just want whatís best for their country. It is perfectly fine for a nation to want to enforce its borders. Tons of people explained to you how illegal immigration hurts their way of life. You've been presented with facts, personal accounts, and all kinds of other stuff. I suggest re-reading some of their posts if you still don't believe it to be true.

Anyways, I did read your question and understood it perfectly well. I responded that I was familiar with your other posts and that this scenario has already been addressed in another thread. I am of the same basic opinion as the people who opposed it there before and had nothing new to add. You can't possibly blame me for not wanting to repeat the same tired arguments over and over again until we're both blue in the face.

I know your position and you know mine. We truly have nothing left to debate. Let's just end it here.
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Old 09-06-2011, 04:00 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
49 posts, read 59,405 times
Reputation: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Good post. Yes, Americans need to stop being afraid of being accused of racism by these pro-illegal groups just to hide their own racism. Indeed we need to be as brazen and loud as they are in our quest to save our country and ridding ourselves of illegal aliens. I am hoping like you that we get elect a president this time around who isn't afraid to stand up for the rule of law and the American people.
Yes, amen! I actually like Romney a lot from everything I've heard so far.
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Old 09-06-2011, 07:51 AM
 
1,574 posts, read 790,138 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by GimmeMts View Post
And what if we could get elephants to fly by flapping their ears? Neither is going to happen, so letís not play the game of hypotheticals.

Well if you're trying to imply that there must be something wrong with my character for not wholeheartedly jumping on board with your proposal then you're reaffirming what I said about you being a bully. Maybe it's not in your reality that someone can have a legitimate reason to disagree with you, but you can't intimidate me into changing my mind. Luckily, I'm not the type of person who has any reason to be afraid of that stuff, so I can openly stick up for what I believe is right. You can really give all of your suspicion crap a rest now

I genuinely feel bad that you have such a negative perception of people. You must have had some pretty bad experiences and I think I can relate to some of that. There will always be a few ignorant imbeciles who will discriminate based on race. But when you assume everyone is that way regardless then that is a serious problem. You may not realize it, but you're so trapped in your ego it's not even funny. Maybe if you stopped projecting your own reality onto others, you might actually see things from their perspective. The truth is most Americans just want whatís best for their country. It is perfectly fine for a nation to want to enforce its borders. Tons of people explained to you how illegal immigration hurts their way of life. You've been presented with facts, personal accounts, and all kinds of other stuff. I suggest re-reading some of their posts if you still don't believe it to be true.

Anyways, I did read your question and understood it perfectly well. I responded that I was familiar with your other posts and that this scenario has already been addressed in another thread. I am of the same basic opinion as the people who opposed it there before and had nothing new to add. You can't possibly blame me for not wanting to repeat the same tired arguments over and over again until we're both blue in the face.

I know your position and you know mine. We truly have nothing left to debate. Let's just end it here.
So basically your position now is

A) since it's a hypothetical it's OK for you to make up stuff that I didn't actually say.

B) since it's a hypothetical you don't have to answer the question but you answered it anyway.

C) since it was a hypothetical you will now proceed to do a bunch of completely baseless armchair psychologist discussion of my motivations so you don't have to feel so bad about your answer.



Basically none of this long-winded post really addressed any aspect of my point.

I believe most americans want what's best for the country. I think a lot of them are mistaken about what actually will produce the "best" results, though. Just having good intentions isn't enough.

I am sure many people genuinely believe immigration makes them worse off. And some of them may even be right. But that alone doesn't mean immigration is a bad thing. If AT&T is granted a government-sanctioned monopoly for providing telephone service, then allowing competition will probably make things worse for AT&T. From that alone we can't conclude that allowing competition is a bad thing, though.

Regardless, the point stands that I didn't say you should be forced to pay taxes to support others, in fact I expressed stated the complete opposite of that, yet you still ran to that smear when you responded. If you did in fact understand my argument as you say you did then you're a completely dishonest debater.

Last edited by rhymetime; 09-06-2011 at 08:12 AM..
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Old 09-06-2011, 07:54 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,752,909 times
Reputation: 22163
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
I believe most americans want what's best for the country. I think a lot of them are mistaken about what actually will produce the "best" results, though. Just having good intentions isn't enough.

I am sure many people genuinely believe immigration makes them worse off. And some of them may even be right. But that alone doesn't mean immigration is a bad thing. If AT&T is granted a government-sanctioned monopoly for providing telephone service, then allowing competition will probably make things worse for AT&T. From that alone we can't conclude that allowing competition is a bad thing, though.

Regardless, the point stands that I didn't say you should be forced to pay taxes to support others, in fact I expressed stated the complete opposite of that, yet you still ran to that smear when you responded. If you did in fact understand my argument as you say you did then you're a completely dishonest debater.
Immigration CAN be a good thing, no one says otherwise, but it must be orderly, balanced and fair.

A good kind of immigration is a give-and-take between nations, where roughly the same amount of immigrants move from each country to the other.

But it's not balanced, orderly or fair when unlimited numbers believe they can ignore the laws and just move on over, no matter who has been waiting for years to come.
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Old 09-06-2011, 08:10 AM
 
1,574 posts, read 790,138 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
A good kind of immigration is a give-and-take between nations, where roughly the same amount of immigrants move from each country to the other.
Why? If that were actually the case then the US would have failed long, long ago.
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Old 09-06-2011, 08:22 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,157,849 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Immigration CAN be a good thing, no one says otherwise, but it must be orderly, balanced and fair.

A good kind of immigration is a give-and-take between nations, where roughly the same amount of immigrants move from each country to the other.

But it's not balanced, orderly or fair when unlimited numbers believe they can ignore the laws and just move on over, no matter who has been waiting for years to come.
Speaking of "dishonest" debating isn't saying that we don't think that "immigration" is a good thing being dishonest? The topic is illegal immigration not legal immigration. As you, I have no problem with the latter if it doesn't impact our own citizens negatively and that we keep population growth, jobs and resources in mind. I am also an advocate for legal immigration being diverse not just from one ethnic group or country.
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Old 09-06-2011, 08:45 AM
 
Location: #
9,605 posts, read 14,285,964 times
Reputation: 6260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hillrunner View Post
The reason, is that we are quickly approaching another election cycle and his favorability numbers amongst Hispanic voters is abismal.
That's not the reason. Hispanics are so turned off by Republicans right now, Obama's numbers are a moot point. The immigration issue turned a lot of conservative Hispanics into voting for Democrats, at least temporarily.

Notice how Republicans never talk about Hisapnics unless it is Democrats "Hispandering"? Come to Texas and watch conservative Hispanic groups listen to Perry. They don't like him at all.

The Democrats don't need to do a thing to get their vote and do not need to pander. It is the Republicans that have all the work to do when it comes to this. A great example of how far apart Republicans are from Hispanics would be polling data of conservative Hispanics vs. conservative non-Hispanics and the immigration issue. The way each group looks at this issue is like night and day.
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