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Old 09-05-2011, 06:47 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,300 posts, read 22,146,635 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
Just like when we had all those poor irish moved to the US and turned it into a dump, just like the english said would happen.
The difference being that the Irish actually entered using the approved method or system. They had a right to be here. Illegals on the other hand do not have a right to be here.
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Old 09-05-2011, 06:58 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 1,013,105 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
The difference being that the Irish actually entered using the approved method or system. They had a right to be here. Illegals on the other hand do not have a right to be here.
Wait, so legal vs. illegal entry is the difference between "building a great nation" and "turning this place into a toilet"?

If that's actually the difference, then why would anyone OPPOSE legalization???
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Old 09-05-2011, 07:02 PM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,205,941 times
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Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
The difference being that the Irish actually entered using the approved method or system. They had a right to be here. Illegals on the other hand do not have a right to be here.
The standards were much looser, of course.
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Old 09-05-2011, 07:02 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,300 posts, read 22,146,635 times
Reputation: 6549
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
Wait, so legal vs. illegal entry is the difference between "building a great nation" and "turning this place into a toilet"?

If that's actually the difference, then why would anyone OPPOSE legalization???
Words in my mouth? I said that?
Legal v.s illegal is the difference between having a right to be here and not having a right to be here.
Correct me if Im wrong but this great nation is already built and without the help of the current crop of illegals.
If illegals are such great nation builders whats up with their country of origin? Why the need to leave? let them work that nation building magic at home.
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Old 09-05-2011, 07:07 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,300 posts, read 22,146,635 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
The standards were much looser, of course.
YES because the needs were different and the nation was young and less populated.
When I built my house I need to plant a lawn. I planted the lawn. Should I keep seeding even though I have a lush lawn? I did it in the past so using your logic I should just keep seeding because I did it in the past.
Needs change. We have high unemployment and no end in sight. The reality is we simply don't need millions of immigrants.
Lets also not forget that in the day in question we didnt have all these social systems to finance and support.
The reality is its a different nation today than 100 or 200 years ago or even 50 years ago for that matter.
We can afford to be very selective and set very high standards.
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Old 09-05-2011, 07:22 PM
 
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Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
YES because the needs were different and the nation was young and less populated.
The need can be dictated by demand. How could government guesswork possibly do a better job?
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Old 09-05-2011, 07:29 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 1,013,105 times
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Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Words in my mouth? I said that?
Legal v.s illegal is the difference between having a right to be here and not having a right to be here.
Well, the implication was that Mexicans are turning this place into a third world country. I pointed out that people said basically the same thing about european immigrants. And your response to that was:

Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
The difference being that the Irish actually entered using the approved method or system. They had a right to be here. Illegals on the other hand do not have a right to be here.
So is "right to be here" the difference or not? That's what you said, the difference is legality. How am I putting words in your mouth here?

Quote:
Correct me if Im wrong but this great nation is already built and without the help of the current crop of illegals.
We're all done? Nothing more to do?
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Old 09-05-2011, 07:37 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,300 posts, read 22,146,635 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
The need can be dictated by demand. How could government guesswork possibly do a better job?
How can lack of standards be a better answer?
The problem I have with your postion is that it relies completely on the hope that immigration would be self leveling. In other words as opprotunity lessoned so would the flow of immigration.
I dont believe this to be true.
I have been in other countries seen the long lines at our embassies of people wanting to come here. They still believe that we are the land of plenty. They will keep coming in spite of the reality. They will come in mass, and we wont be able to absorb them quickly enough. Our infra structure will be maxed out as will our social services. We wont be able to keep up let alone afford the strain. The potential revenues will come long after the burdon. The majority will be minmum wage earners so federal revenues will only be drained no gain.
This is the reality of opening immigration on such a large scale.
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Old 09-05-2011, 07:40 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,300 posts, read 22,146,635 times
Reputation: 6549
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
Well, the implication was that Mexicans are turning this place into a third world country. I pointed out that people said basically the same thing about european immigrants. And your response to that was:



So is "right to be here" the difference or not? That's what you said, the difference is legality. How am I putting words in your mouth here?



We're all done? Nothing more to do?
Nothing unskilled undereducated labor will significantly impact. But they will impact our reserves what little we have.
I never implied mexicans would turn us into a 3rd world country. In fact I didnt even say anything about mexicans. So yes words in my mouth.
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Old 09-05-2011, 07:47 PM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,205,941 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
How can lack of standards be a better answer?
The problem I have with your postion is that it relies completely on the hope that immigration would be self leveling. In other words as opprotunity lessoned so would the flow of immigration.
We actually know it to be true. Immigration has lessened since 2008, for example.

When there is no demand, supply WILL dwindle. Now things like entitlements are effectively artificial supply. And I'm fully open to limiting them for immigrants (though I'd rather pay up and, say, cut military spending).
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