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Old 09-14-2011, 06:25 AM
 
403 posts, read 280,939 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Access to programs can also be increased by the access to the programs being made easier.

Also the more illegals who make it over the border to give birth, the more are accessing those welfare programs. Independent of whether each illegal is having fewer children, it takes just one birth in the USA to get access to the welfare programs.

In the 1960s for example, few illegals were coming over the border to access welfare handouts, the number is many times more today.
I'm not sure what the point of your first sentence is? It's already been acknowledged in this thread that that is the case. Moreover, what you are describing is a different issue than what my posts were addressing which was the assertion that people are coming over here en masse because access to our social programs make it easy for them to support "third world birth rates." I was merely pointing out that since birthrates have been steadily declining, it's unlikely that this is the case, or if they are doing it they haven't had much, if any effect on the overall rates so the numbers that are doing it can't be that significant relative to the rest of the problem (unless as LR was quick to point out there are large numbers of kids being born here under the radar, in a random back ally, I presume?) so there is little, if any reason to be worried.

If you want to pursue the claim that illegals are coming over here and only having one kid, well then I would say you are agoing to have a tough road to plow because I'm sure ChicagoNut, et al will be quick to point to all the relevant info they have that proves you're wrong and illegal immigrants are "breeding like rabbits" or some such...
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Old 09-14-2011, 06:29 AM
 
403 posts, read 280,939 times
Reputation: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isitmeorarethingsnuts? View Post
I didn't agree with that either. It is STILL a big deal. Sorry.
No, it wasn't. It was clearly just a flippant remark I tacked on at the end of the post to lightly mock the attitude taken by some people 'round these parts, but I guess you're too literal-minded to have picked up on that?
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Old 09-14-2011, 06:55 AM
 
403 posts, read 280,939 times
Reputation: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post

So because I don't post daily or in every topic I am somehow.... (SMH)
There are literally hundreds of posts in this forum casually mentioning how birth rates of illegals are astronomically higher than other *ahem* white *ahem* demographics some with stats, some just fly-by remarks, but all accompanied with the explicit hand wringing or allusions to the "devastating implications" this will have for our country if we don't do something(!!!). Yet you want me to believe that you didn't stumble across one of these, not even the few that were in this thread BEFORE my post (one of which I quoted in the very post you took issue with), until lo and behold you magically log on to City Data, open the thread, and stumble upon my post and immediately feel compelled to point out the error in using those statistics to support THAT conclusion... Yeah, ok.

Quote:
I see you finally got most of my point, however you could also still have rising birth rates among Hispanic Illegals since they may not be fully considered in your link. Just because there are declining birth rates among US Hispanics doesn't mean that those from Latin America also have the same or less rates, the assumption Rhymetime makes about deviation is just that, assumption.
I like how you stick that jab in there like you didn't edit your post after my first response...

Anyway, it's certainly possible that some children are being born to illegals under the radar, but do you really think it's a significant portion? I mean, according to many of the people around here that's their meal ticket, right? Why would they not want the child to be accounted for when the child would be a legal citizen entitled to all the privileges and benefits that accompany being a citizen of this country? I guess it could be some StarWars-esque La Raza plot to breed an army of Mexican-loyalist child soldiers in the country completely under the radar for when the revolution happens 18 years from now...
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Old 09-14-2011, 07:24 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,731,841 times
Reputation: 22159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridian Ideals View Post
I'm not sure what the point of your first sentence is? It's already been acknowledged in this thread that that is the case. Moreover, what you are describing is a different issue than what my posts were addressing which was the assertion that people are coming over here en masse because access to our social programs make it easy for them to support "third world birth rates." I was merely pointing out that since birthrates have been steadily declining, it's unlikely that this is the case, or if they are doing it they haven't had much, if any effect on the overall rates so the numbers that are doing it can't be that significant relative to the rest of the problem (unless as LR was quick to point out there are large numbers of kids being born here under the radar, in a random back ally, I presume?) so there is little, if any reason to be worried.

If you want to pursue the claim that illegals are coming over here and only having one kid, well then I would say you are agoing to have a tough road to plow because I'm sure ChicagoNut, et al will be quick to point to all the relevant info they have that proves you're wrong and illegal immigrants are "breeding like rabbits" or some such...
The fact that over half of Mexican girls living in the USA have babies before they reach age 20 shows that they aren't learning responsible cultural ways and are very eager to access the welfare handout programs since very few of these girls have health insurance and job skills to support their children.

Not many are having one kid, they know the more kids, the more food stamps, the more housing assistance, more WIC, and the kids don't cost them a dime to have as they are never expected to pay their hospital bills and health care costs.

Illegals are those who couldn't make it back in their own countries where they know the language and culture, and where the cost of living is very low. Their own countries lack the generous welfare programs and those welfare programs are very much helpful when it comes to having children you cannot afford to have.
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Old 09-14-2011, 07:32 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,155,041 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
I guarantee for each one of those births there is at least one U.S. citizen patient involved as well...



Then we will see an equal amount of comments in other forum areas about American parents having more children than they can afford?....
Although it is irresponsible for American parents to have more children than they can afford and therefore use taxpayer subsidies to support them at least they are American parents. We don't need to add foreign parents here illegally to the mix.

Really? Where is the proof of your "guarantee" that at least one of these parents is an American? And more importantly why in the world would a citizen get involved with an illegal alien like that knowing that the parent of their child could be deported? Or is it that they think their citizen baby would "anchor" that parent on to our country thus the term "anchor baby"?

Dallas hospital cares for illegal immigrants - Nightly News - msnbc.com
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Old 09-14-2011, 07:38 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,731,841 times
Reputation: 22159
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Although it is irresponsible for American parents to have more children than they can afford and therefore use taxpayer subsidies to support them at least they are American parents. We don't need to add foreign parents here illegally to the mix.

Really? Where is the proof of your "guarantee" that at least one of these parents is an American?

Dallas hospital cares for illegal immigrants - Nightly News - msnbc.com
Anyone who knows what's going on would not make such a claim. Elvira Arellano is a good example, there was no evidence she even knew who the father of Saul was, and many of these women are already pregnant before crossing the border.

One illegal couple that lived near me had 4 kids at last count, both parents were here illegally and there's no reason to believe she was cheating on her common law illegal "spouse" with an American citizen. I don't know if they have more kids by now, they left this area for Colorado but when they were here, they were getting food stamps and WIC for having those kids.
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Old 09-14-2011, 08:21 AM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,713,282 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridian Ideals View Post
There are literally hundreds of posts in this forum casually mentioning how birth rates of illegals are astronomically higher than other *ahem* white *ahem* demographics some with stats, some just fly-by remarks, but all accompanied with the explicit hand wringing or allusions to the "devastating implications" this will have for our country if we don't do something(!!!). Yet you want me to believe that you didn't stumble across one of these, not even the few that were in this thread BEFORE my post (one of which I quoted in the very post you took issue with), until lo and behold you magically log on to City Data, open the thread, and stumble upon my post and immediately feel compelled to point out the error in using those statistics to support THAT conclusion... Yeah, ok.

I like how you stick that jab in there like you didn't edit your post after my first response...

Anyway, it's certainly possible that some children are being born to illegals under the radar, but do you really think it's a significant portion? I mean, according to many of the people around here that's their meal ticket, right? Why would they not want the child to be accounted for when the child would be a legal citizen entitled to all the privileges and benefits that accompany being a citizen of this country? I guess it could be some StarWars-esque La Raza plot to breed an army of Mexican-loyalist child soldiers in the country completely under the radar for when the revolution happens 18 years from now...
You are a glutten, aren't you. My post was edited @ 1:14PM your post to my comment was at 1:18PM, sorry, but you are simply wrong or can't tell time.

I could swear I stated something to the fact that It's been shown in this forum that increased claims for social services by illegal alien children born in the USA have increased over the years. Nice stereotype by the way or is it cool story bro, how about amirite?

It's not about children being born "under the radar", as their children, if born here (you call them citizen children), do become the meal ticket to some (social services for citizens - children are born here - walla), along with receiving their federal tax contributions + credits back at the end of the year (a negative tax rate), it's like hitting the jackpot, free money.
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Old 09-14-2011, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,013,920 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Although it is irresponsible for American parents to have more children than they can afford and therefore use taxpayer subsidies to support them at least they are American parents. We don't need to add foreign parents here illegally to the mix...
Irresponsibility is irresponsibility...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
...Really? Where is the proof of your "guarantee" that at least one of these parents is an American? And more importantly why in the world would a citizen get involved with an illegal alien like that knowing that the parent of their child could be deported? Or is it that they think their citizen baby would "anchor" that parent on to our country thus the term "anchor baby"?...
Think about it, there is always going to be an equal or greater number of U.S. citizen patients for every birth. What does immigration status matter in a relationship? In the example you countered with there (still not understanding what I mean by one-half of the "patients" in a birth), that family now typically has at least twice as many U.S. citizens as illegal aliens.

There was also an earlier article about Parkland Hospital that snopes debunked, in that an e-mail chain letter objected after a certain number of "Anchor Baby" births the mother would automatically become a U.S. citizen. We know that claim is false, on an I-601 waiver the U.S. citizen children are only considered if it is impossible that they live in the home country of the illegal alien parent. An I-601 is specifically for the marital relationship between a U.S. citizen and illegal alien present in the United States.
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Old 09-14-2011, 08:54 AM
 
Location: Out in the Badlands
10,396 posts, read 8,353,181 times
Reputation: 7679
They do it because they can...go visit a third world country and you would too.
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Old 09-14-2011, 08:59 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,819,795 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridian Ideals View Post
Ok, so we've increased access to the gravy train, so to speak. So, given that we've increased access to these programs that, according to you, make it easier to support having many kids, we could expect birth rates for groups of people who represent a large portion of illegal immigrant populations such as Hispanics to be increasing or at least not decreasing, right? Because, if things are really as many of the people around here claim and these illegal immigrants aren't assimilating and they do come from a culture that promotes having tons of kids and they suddenly end up over here in a situation in which we are making it easier for them to have these kids e.g. through all they monies that we shower on them through our social programs to help support those kids then it would seem logical that their birth rates would be increasing, right?

Well, luckily we keep statistics on these types of things and some people make pretty graphs out of them:

Birth rates and fertility rates, by race


OH NOES!!! WE HAVE A PARADOX!!! Perhaps it's because one or more of our underlying assumptions is false?
From your linked source. . .

Quote:
Since 1960, the overall birth rate has fallen 43 percent, and the fertility rate, 44 percent. Since 1990, African-Americans have had the largest declines in birth rate (down 31 percent) and fertility rate (down 19 percent).
It’s interesting that you chose to only report on the overall decline in the U.S. birthrate, supported by a graph of said decline, while failing to report the unprecedented increase in the Hispanic population, which is primarily attributed to the high birthrate among “immigrants” from Mexico.

For accurate accounting, one must have both debits and credits. Likewise, both the decline and increase must be presented to have an accurate accounting of birthrates. You presented only one side of the equation. I wonder why.

Quote:
Births have surpassed immigration as the main driver of the dynamic growth in the U.S. Hispanic population. This new trend is especially evident among the largest of all Hispanic groups-Mexican-Americans, according to a new analysis of U.S. Census Bureau data by the Pew Hispanic Center, a project of the Pew Research Center.
Quote:
The current surge in births among Mexican-Americans is largely attributable to the immigration wave that has brought more than 10 million immigrants to the United States from Mexico since 1970. Between 2006 and 2010 alone, more than half (53%) of all Mexican-American births were to Mexican immigrant parents. As a group, these immigrants are more likely than U.S.-born Americans to be in their prime child-bearing years. They also have much higher fertility.
http://pewhispanic.org/files/reports/graphics/144.gif (broken link)

The Mexican-American Boom: <br>Births Overtake Immigration - Pew Hispanic Center

Quote:
The nation's Latino population, which was 35.3 million in 2000, grew 43% over the decade. The Hispanic population also accounted for most of the nation's growth—56%—from 2000 to 2010.
http://pewhispanic.org/files/reports/graphics/140.gif (broken link)

Hispanics Account for More than Half of Nation's Growth in Past Decade - Pew Hispanic Center

Quote:
The dimensions of the Hispanic baby boom are startling. The Hispanic birthrate is twice as high as that of the rest of the American population.

Hispanic women have the highest unmarried birthrate in the country — over three times that of whites and Asians, and nearly 1 ˝ times that of black women, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Every 1,000 unmarried Hispanic women bore 92 children in 2003 (the latest year for which data exist), compared with 28 children for unmarried white women, 22 for unmarried Asian women, and 66 for unmarried black women.
Quote:
Overall teen childbearing in the U.S. declined for the 12th year in a row in 2003, having dropped by more than a third since 1991. Yet even here, Hispanics remain a cause for concern. The rate of childbirth for teens from Mexico, part of the fastest-growing immigrant population in the U.S., greatly outstrips every other group.
Article | Surge in Birth Rate Among Unwed Hispanics Creating New U.S. Underclass
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