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Old 09-05-2011, 10:41 PM
 
4,996 posts, read 1,720,926 times
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I refuse to believe that mass immigration, either legal or illegal, is a partisan issue. Politicians on both sides are complicit in not-stopping and even encouraging illegal immigration.

Neither democrats nor republicans do anything significant to stop illegal immigration, and unskilled legal immigration as a whole is encouraged through allocation of money, propaganda efforts abroad, and legislation.

Additionally, the same trend is continuing to occur throughout both North America and Europe. This is official bipartisan policy, folks, across the west.

No more childish excuses blaming the other side of the aisle. That only serves to distract and waste more time, during which more immigrants pour in. Some republicans, at the state level or lower, take action. Most Fed republicans either just give it lip service or outright encourage it through their actions. I'm not singling them out to pick on them, but just to illustrate that the party who is theoretically supposed to be most effective in stopping it is not effective at it when they are in federal power. If you can wage wars like were waged in the last presidency, you can build a damn border fence. Congressional support or no.

So, why this policy of enabling mass immigration?? The widespread and far-into-the-future effects of this demographic shift, on culture and economy, is too great to be not be purposeful.

In the rare instance that the demographic shift is addressed by a high level official who isn't driven by saber rattling (pumping us up for the next Muslim country to invade), a childish excuse is given that makes zero sense in terms of the long term health of the country.

The government isn't stupid. They are experts in sociological science and they know what this will do to us.

Unacceptable childish excuses, that make no logical sense, include:

1. "To provide the immigrants with opportunity / This country has a long proud history of immigration"

2. "To increase multiculturalism for the sake of multiculturalism"

3. "We can't stop it"

4. "To provide workers for the menial jobs."

5. "Cheap Labor" (another way of stating #4, I guess, but I refuse to believe that the overall demographic and cultural sacrifice is worth the cheap labor today - even to the government)

5. ?


At this point, I will quite literally take any answer that makes real adult sense. I don't care if its horrible. I can take the truth. What I hate is being treated like I'm stupid. Politicians must be made to give a straight honest answer to the millions of confused Americans and Europeans who are not given nor who can see a real legitimate reason, that makes any real sense, for this seemingly internationally coordinated mass illegal/legal immigration policy in the west.

A true victory, in this losing battle, would be the success of a movement whose sole mission was to get an honest answer from the governments of the west. To begin, one has to be happy with small but meaningful victories. A frank talk between the governments and the native citizens of North America and Western Europe would be a start.

Last edited by golgi1; 09-05-2011 at 11:07 PM..
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Old 09-06-2011, 12:46 AM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,009,391 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golgi1 View Post
I refuse to believe that mass immigration, either legal or illegal, is a partisan issue...
Immigration itself stems from a natural tendency to moved to a more developed area...
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Old 09-06-2011, 01:29 AM
 
3,845 posts, read 3,160,344 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Immigration itself stems from a natural tendency to moved to a more developed area...
There are people in other countries working to better them instead of Illegally fleeing into the US.

Illegal Aliens seem to undeservedly expect things from the US taxpayers while not holding their own governments and culture of corruption accountable.

Enough with blaming the US solely for NAFTA. Mexico, Guatemala and other nations will readily sell out their own and that is where the Illegals need to place the blame.

Uneducated peasants popping out Anchor Babies to leach off the US taxpayers isn't the way to go. It's not Latin America's educated and skilled immigrants that are the problem.

It's idiot lower class that comes over here, breeds and drops multiple kids that they can't/won't support or parent right.

The argument that the US needs " Illegal Immigrants" to survive is a farce.

The US can use educated LAW ABIDING and SKILLED workers and if it decides to let them in would have no trouble finding them from ALL over the world.

WE do not need, want or should import or let in those who do not respect US laws or sovereignity. Let their repective homelands deal with this burden that THEY created.
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Old 09-06-2011, 05:57 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,690,207 times
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Massive illegal immigration goes hand-in-hand with NAFTA.

It's about cheap labor, unlimited cheap labor both here and there, and also about displacing many workers. American unemployed are given unemployment benefits, the Mexican unemployed pack up and head over the border. Certain deals had to be made in order to get big businesses moving into Mexico like the Walmarts and at the time NAFTA was signed, Mexico was 80% rural and the campesinos were sold out. The ruling class there decided they were useless in Mexico but could be useful as cheap labor remittance senders or just gone for good.

Our ruling class also decided it's people were useless because they were too used to middle class incomes and nice jobs.
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Old 09-06-2011, 06:12 AM
 
Location: Beautiful Florida !
222 posts, read 416,609 times
Reputation: 229
I have to believe it is all a part of the globalization plan. We are in for a huge change of lifestyle here in America unless one is weathy.
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Old 09-06-2011, 06:28 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
294 posts, read 584,740 times
Reputation: 223
What is the real reason for mass immigration into the first world?

I'd say that it allows politicians and business people as default to rip the benefits from a growing voting block. At least in the U.S. that seems to be the case, I cannot speak for other countries. When you receive a mass of immigrants, for the most part poor and uneducated, you receive a vulnerable and manipulable group of people. Roosevelt did the same thing back in the 30's. His New Deal and other pieces of Legislations were highly repulsive to the "native" or conservatives. The only way to get pass this problem was to add new voters that did not relate to the concerns and principles of the already established American people at the time. You get a tremendous amount of people who have no idea or little knowledge of the economic, politcal, cultural, and social background of the new homeland. I'm not blaming people for that, specially since I'm one of them, but merely pointing out how vulnerable and easy to manipulate these voting block can be.

For instance, there are supposedly 12 million illegal immigrants in this country. Most of us could agree that a large portion of these group of people are Hispanics. Furthermore, most of us could agree that these illegal immigrants already have legal family members living in the U.S. If as a Presidential candidate you promise that an Amnesty will be given to illegal aliens, it is no brainer that you will have a large portion of the Hispanic voting block supporting your candidancy with the idea that it will resolve the short term problems of their family members. Not to mention, that it forges hopes that other family members will have the opportunity to be reunited. I know this because I hear it all the time. Most Hispanics are uninterested, for one reason or another, about the real relevant issues that provide stebility to this country. So in a nutshell, it is easy to get away with murder. Then again, this is my personal opinion of course.
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Old 09-06-2011, 07:59 AM
 
1,574 posts, read 788,760 times
Reputation: 124
It's a conspiracy. The lizard people are sending them here to sap and impurify our precious bodily fluids.

I mean, seriously. When I read this post and right out of the gate you pre-emptive dismiss anything your opponents say as "unacceptable childish excuses, that make no logical sense" we know you're not actually interested in a serious discussion.
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Old 09-06-2011, 08:17 AM
 
Location: in a cabin overlooking the mountains
3,079 posts, read 3,573,769 times
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Well do you mean first world or do you mean US?

If you mean first world, then I think IBM pretty much said it. What if you have the rotten luck to be born in a place where the best you can hope for to better yourself is to collect bottles off the road? Of course if you have any ambition you will want out. Or if you are the mooching type, you will naturally want to live in a place where money grows on trees so to speak.

As to why the US is so attractive, my opinion is that it stems from our own laws.
#1 - we grant the right of citizenship to any person born on our soil. MOST COUNTRIES DO NOT DO THAT. IMO we should clarify our laws to state that the US grants the right of citizenship to any person born here to persons who are under US jurisdiction - ie here legally (and I don't care if it's a temporary work or student visa). The parents are here illegally, the kid does not have the right to US citizenship. Period.

#2 - our immigration policy is skewed toward family reunification. This has been discussed TO DEATH on this forum so I won't waste my pixels on it other than to say we could stand be a bit more self-serving like other developed countries and skew our immigration policy toward a work force with a god work ethic.

Now as to why our politicians allow it?

In a nutshell and probably oversimplified, Democrats are looking for new voters, and Republicans aren't above using them as cheap labor.
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Old 09-06-2011, 11:17 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,144,640 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Immigration itself stems from a natural tendency to moved to a more developed area...
Except that people with morals will not violate another country's immigration laws to move to a "more developed area". There are parts of Mexico that are more developed than another. So what is their excuse for coming here instead? Mexico's unemployment is half of what ours is.
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Old 09-06-2011, 11:26 AM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,009,391 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by antarez View Post
...It's idiot lower class that comes over here, breeds and drops multiple kids that they can't/won't support or parent right...
The OP also brings up legal immigration, and the same "pull" factors influence both...

Thanks for the vote of confidence above in immigrating my family BTW. Raised any kids lately? There isn't any one ethnicity that doesn't lack an example of bad parenting of their children these days.
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