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Old 09-09-2011, 09:34 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,887,954 times
Reputation: 6517

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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
So breaking laws and causing hardship on American citizens is ok just as long as one's own personal family has a better life? Those labor intensive jobs that 97% of illegals are doing have always been done by Americans for a fair wage until the arrival of millions of cheap, illegal workers.
Well said. Its a lame excuse used by illegal supporters. They only do jobs americans wont do. No they do them for below standard wages. Which is easy enough to do when your not paying taxes on your wages.
Then the who will pick your veggies excuse. Uhm legal migrants.
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Old 09-09-2011, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,816,809 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zacatecana View Post
Bad analogy. Slaves wanted to free their children. Immigrants who normally work the toughest labor intense jobs for low pay want a better life for their children. Slaves->Freedom, Undocumented Workers->Better life
Correct me if Iím wrong, but werenít the slaves brought here against their will? I hardly consider slaves a valid comparison to those who freely entered this country illegally, yet have the audacity to demand the same rights and privileges as citizens. Illegals have a right to want a better life for their children. Donít most parents? But, they do NOT have a right to seek it here, without permission, and in flagrant violation of our laws.

Until illegals are willing to fight and die for a better life for their children in their countries of origin, no comparison can be made to slaves or their descendants. In fact, I consider it an affront to even attempt such a comparison.
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Old 09-09-2011, 10:26 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,887,954 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Correct me if Iím wrong, but werenít the slaves brought here against their will? I hardly consider slaves a valid comparison to those who freely entered this country illegally, yet have the audacity to demand the same rights and privileges as citizens. Illegals have a right to want a better life for their children. Donít most parents? But, they do NOT have a right to seek it here, without permission, and in flagrant violation of our laws.

Until illegals are willing to fight and die for a better life for their children in their countries of origin, no comparison can be made to slaves or their descendants. In fact, I consider it an affront to even attempt such a comparison.
Yes sort of like comparing a rape victim to a prostitute.
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Old 09-09-2011, 12:14 PM
 
Location: CITY OF ANGELS AND CONSTANT DANGER
5,409 posts, read 11,072,228 times
Reputation: 2244
i love it!!! "she cant help what her grand parents did." i guess neither can children of illegals born here. or those who were brought her illegally as children. that absolves them. they cant help what their parents did. or is it only grandparents?


Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
How is she a hypocrite? She can't help what her grandparents did. She can't be for the rule of law just because her grandparents weren't? If I had a bank robber in my ancestry should I approve of bank robbery?

Everytime a Hispanic doesn't tow the raza line they get accused of being "vendidos" to their own ethnic kind by the ethnocentrics.
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Old 09-09-2011, 02:27 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,386,453 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the one View Post
i love it!!! "she cant help what her grand parents did." i guess neither can children of illegals born here. or those who were brought her illegally as children. that absolves them. they cant help what their parents did. or is it only grandparents?

Your argument fails.

Illegals already have citizenship somewhere else. They can go back there as they should and stop violating our immigration laws. Most countries do not grant citizenship based on a grandparent's nationality.

If you want to talk about grandparents or great grandparents for that matter you should be comfortable with a few facts. For one thing most of our grandparents immigrated LEGALLY. For another when they got here they expected nothing but opportunity. No bilingual services because they were too lazy to learn English. No food stamps or public housing. Certainly no paid medical bills or a college degree paid for at their fellow American's expense. In turn they were happy and grateful.

If they couldn't manage to stay here they left. Unfortunately we have the very opposite stance. Worse, we have it from a population that can't be be bothered to obey any of our laws. Today's illegals expect everything from the American public including the right to a fully paid for tertiary education. They want to join our society without the corresponding responsibility to learn our common language or contribute to the safety nets they're so eager to use.
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Old 09-09-2011, 02:38 PM
 
1,970 posts, read 1,429,915 times
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I never knew for sure but I figured she came from illegals from some side of her family. People her age and younger have gotten a lot of goodies since Reagan first started the amnesty gravy train.
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Old 09-09-2011, 02:58 PM
 
Location: CITY OF ANGELS AND CONSTANT DANGER
5,409 posts, read 11,072,228 times
Reputation: 2244
you obviously know very little about an immigrants experience when they came here in 50 to 70 years.

thats not the point tho.
you totally missed it.
oh well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
Your argument fails.

Illegals already have citizenship somewhere else. They can go back there as they should and stop violating our immigration laws. Most countries do not grant citizenship based on a grandparent's nationality.

If you want to talk about grandparents or great grandparents for that matter you should be comfortable with a few facts. For one thing most of our grandparents immigrated LEGALLY. For another when they got here they expected nothing but opportunity. No bilingual services because they were too lazy to learn English. No food stamps or public housing. Certainly no paid medical bills or a college degree paid for at their fellow American's expense. In turn they were happy and grateful.

If they couldn't manage to stay here they left. Unfortunately we have the very opposite stance. Worse, we have it from a population that can't be be bothered to obey any of our laws. Today's illegals expect everything from the American public including the right to a fully paid for tertiary education. They want to join our society without the corresponding responsibility to learn our common language or contribute to the safety nets they're so eager to use.
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Old 09-09-2011, 03:07 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,152,437 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by the one View Post
i love it!!! "she cant help what her grand parents did." i guess neither can children of illegals born here. or those who were brought her illegally as children. that absolves them. they cant help what their parents did. or is it only grandparents?

That's right children born here on our soil cannot help that their parents came here illegally. No one is talking about stripping them of their citizenship so what are you talking about? Yes, birthright citizenship needs to change for the future but that would just make those future births citizens of their parent's homeland. Oh, the horror!

As for children brought here illegally by their parents they also hold the citizenship of the country they were born in so what is the problem of them returning to their own homeland? Oh, the horror!

You are comparing apples to oranges here. Martinez is a citizen by her parents being born here even though the grandparents came illegally. Her parents were citizens by the current interpretation of the 14th amendment.
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Old 09-09-2011, 03:13 PM
 
Location: OCEAN BREEZES AND VIEWS SAN CLEMENTE
19,899 posts, read 15,293,898 times
Reputation: 6451
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
So breaking laws and causing hardship on American citizens is ok just as long as one's own personal family has a better life? Those labor intensive jobs that 97% of illegals are doing have always been done by Americans for a fair wage until the arrival of millions of cheap, illegal workers.
I really agree with you and well stated. Don't so many of us Americans get tired of the lame excuses, well they are doing jobs Americans are not doing blah blah and blah. They also are getting paid under the table, i know this from some who are getting paid under the table, and not reporting their wages. Some will continue to argue, but they do. I happen to know some construction companies, and vending companies, and grocers who do hire illegals.
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Old 09-09-2011, 03:29 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,386,453 times
Reputation: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by the one View Post
you obviously know very little about an immigrants experience when they came here in 50 to 70 years.

thats not the point tho.
you totally missed it.
oh well.
What have I written that wasn't true? Illegals already have citizenship somewhere else. Why do they need it from us? Why are they specifically entitled to American citizenship because they happen to be underaged illegals?

Martinez derives citizenship the way the rest of us do: from her parents.

You're the one who's missing the point.

I was just pointing out that historically the expectations were different. If you're going to compare yesterday's legals with today's illegals we have every right to contrast the differing expectations of the two groups.
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