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Old 10-16-2011, 12:38 PM
 
5,532 posts, read 5,734,998 times
Reputation: 3146

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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
But why was it so very possible to replace at least that many Americans in the workplace? The way it would be very possible is to start fining businesses that bring in illegals, fine businesses and individuals at the very least $10,000 per illegal, and the costs of any medical care including maternity hospital stays that were incurred.
Enforcing the law is theoretically possible, but they won't bring in an American worker for each immigrant who is let go. The transaction from American labour to immigrants was relatively long and slow. Switching back in an instant is less practical.
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That way if the costs of the illegals are shoved onto the taxpayers, and those who bring them in had to pay for them, then it might become more profitable to hire Americans than to keep bringing in truckloads of illegals.
Agreed.
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And yes the politicians are looking at easy votes, but the politicians aren't doing all that well if you notice. Obama's approval rating is quite low, and the pro-open borders candidate of the other party isn't doing nearly as well in the polls as they expected, and Cain whose campaign has very little money compared to huge campaign money that Romney and Perry have has passed them in popularity.
It is so indeed. However, at the planning stages, the election advisers are examining demographic trends and based on that they plan campaigns. In reality "election science" is like the science behind future economic planning: charts, statistics, segments and columns, but real life almost always eludes them.
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Yes, the big money wants the open borders candidates, but obviously the people aren't interested in them. And the hispanic vote isn't the monolith they like to believe it is, they aren't necessarily a one-issue ethnic group all supporting massive and unlimited illegal immigration and the displacement of the American people.
Agreed again. Very few ethnic groups are really monolithic. As you say, look at Cain. He is an antitheses of generalizations regarding African American voting patterns.
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Old 10-16-2011, 12:45 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 70,054,393 times
Reputation: 27524
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
Nonsense. the single biggest cost is to the children who go on regardless of the parents. And even if they leave with their parents they come back at 18...likely with a limited education and a view that they were screwed by America. Boy is that going to be a happy lot.

In actual fact illegals cost nothing plus or minus a little.

But go ahead...get your congressman to propose $100 billion to begin to remove the illegals. See how far he gets.
Some school districts spend near $10K per student.
Illegals are guaranteed a K-12 education here in the US.
Illegals are guaranteed free food and medical care.

Although free to them it's not really free.

And that's just the children. So tell me again how they cost "nothing" ?
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Old 10-16-2011, 01:16 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,567,458 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Some school districts spend near $10K per student.
Illegals are guaranteed a K-12 education here in the US.
Illegals are guaranteed free food and medical care.

Although free to them it's not really free.

And that's just the children. So tell me again how they cost "nothing" ?
Illegals pay taxes and contribute to the economy.

The vast majority of education costs go to legal children...who obviously are not illegal.

No food and only emergency medical care.
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Old 10-16-2011, 01:32 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,929 posts, read 30,173,166 times
Reputation: 17748
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
Illegals pay taxes and contribute to the economy.

The vast majority of education costs go to legal children...who obviously are not illegal.

No food and only emergency medical care.
The kid wouldn't be here if the Parents hadn't snuck in. No one can deny that. If they are getting paid cash under the table how are they paying taxes besides sales tax for food and other items?
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Old 10-16-2011, 02:35 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,567,458 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
The kid wouldn't be here if the Parents hadn't snuck in. No one can deny that. If they are getting paid cash under the table how are they paying taxes besides sales tax for food and other items?
The nature of your parents has no implications on your citizenship status. It is however virtually always quoted as there are no other effective costs.

One of the things on the benefit side of an amnesty is that the salaries move strongly to the legal side and go up. They pay all local taxes pretty much in NV as we don't have a state income tax. The ones working on payroll also pay social security and medicare that they never collect.
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Old 10-16-2011, 03:11 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,715,868 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
The nature of your parents has no implications on your citizenship status. It is however virtually always quoted as there are no other effective costs.

One of the things on the benefit side of an amnesty is that the salaries move strongly to the legal side and go up. They pay all local taxes pretty much in NV as we don't have a state income tax. The ones working on payroll also pay social security and medicare that they never collect.
You are using the "assumptions" of your previous linked report and now claiming them as fact? What a stretch. How can their wages rise when in fact everybody else's have either remained the same or gone down? You might check out the Totalization Agreement between Mexico and the USA, those working here illegally can collect the SS they paid in, as long as they go back to Mexico and collect it through there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
Illegals pay taxes and contribute to the economy.

The vast majority of education costs go to legal children...who obviously are not illegal.

No food and only emergency medical care.
What they contribute isn't enough to cover their costs, look to Victor Davis Hanson, they actually cost $14B per year, which includes there tax contributions and the education of their children to also include their free breakfast and lunches at said schools.
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Old 10-16-2011, 03:33 PM
 
Location: Portland OR
404 posts, read 1,147,105 times
Reputation: 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
Illegals pay taxes and contribute to the economy.
Ok, but you do not understand that if their net payment is negative, they're better off deported.

If costs associated with (education, dependent care, medical, public assistance) exceeds tax payment, they're a drain on the society.

They use children to tap into our money. We are encouraging illegals by providing benefits to pregnant illegal mothers (who receive full benefits in Oregon) and the kid will be born as a citizen anchor.

Kids are born everywhere outside the US. Pregnancy is not an excuse to provide illegals benefits. Its an opportunity to deport them back to wherever they came from.
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Old 10-16-2011, 03:38 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,836,058 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
Illegals pay taxes and contribute to the economy.

The vast majority of education costs go to legal children...who obviously are not illegal.

No food and only emergency medical care.
They are still the children of illegal aliens, who, by the way, are people living in this country illegally. We should not be forced to foot the bills for ANY children of illegal aliens. They come to this country knowing they are breaking our laws, yet we are supposed to simply sit idly by and watch as they give birth at the speed of light with no possible means for support, and WE must foot the bill for them, including their criminal parents. I’m sick of it.

No food and only “emergency” care? Give me a break. I posted yesterday enough examples of their tax-funded food. As for “emergency” care, they certainly know how to play the game, and their game is bankrupting hospitals. They use our ERs as their primary care physicians, realizing an ER cannot refuse to treat even their runny noses or diaper rash.

Grady Memorial provided dialysis for indigent patients for over 100 years. Sadly, due to being overwhelmed by ILLEGAL ALIENS, they were forced to close. Now, citizens must suffer due to people who have no right to even be here. How anyone can condone this is beyond me. Yet, according to you, illegals are not a burden.

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The closing of the Grady clinic would essentially leave metro Atlanta without a major hospital that provides nearly free outpatient dialysis care for the poor, uninsured and illegal immigrants.

The closing of Grady’s outpatient dialysis clinic reflects many of the issues that are hurting safety net hospitals across the country. Their communities often expect them to provide all the care that other hospitals don’t, but many of these medical facilities are sinking financially under the weight of providing uncompensated care to uninsured people.
Grady dialysis center to close on Saturday *| ajc.com

Quote:
Every four or five days, she shows up at University Medical Center's emergency room, her failing kidneys requiring that her waste be filtered and excess fluid be removed through artificial means

Since April, UMC has been spending about $2 million per month providing emergency dialysis services to 80 illegal immigrants, Brannman said.

He projects that these services at UMC could run more than $24 million in the current fiscal year.

In each of the five prior years, the hospital provided the same emergency services to half as many illegal immigrants for a little more than $1 million per month.
Illegal immigrants burden UMC - News - ReviewJournal.com

Quote:
Other states have wavered. North Carolina, for example, now provides routine dialysis for illegal immigrants. Conversely, the Georgia Medicaid program stopped paying for dialysis in 2006 amid rising sentiments in the Legislature that illegal immigrants were a financial drain.

A group of illegal immigrants sued Arizona in 2002 after the state attempted to cut off their dialysis. Heeding arguments that sporadic emergency treatments would jeopardize lives, a judge told the state to keep treating them while the case was decided. In a settlement last year, the state agreed to restore its policy of providing routine dialysis, but the settlement applies only to Arizona.

The cost of one routine treatment is about $250. The cost of providing it in the emergency room can easily climb into the thousands of dollars, especially if the patient has to be admitted to the hospital.
Free Dialysis | Dialysis dilemma: Who gets free care? - Page 2 - Los Angeles Times

As sickening as this is, it is only the tip of the iceberg.
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Old 10-16-2011, 04:59 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,929 posts, read 30,173,166 times
Reputation: 17748
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
The nature of your parents has no implications on your citizenship status. It is however virtually always quoted as there are no other effective costs.

One of the things on the benefit side of an amnesty is that the salaries move strongly to the legal side and go up. They pay all local taxes pretty much in NV as we don't have a state income tax. The ones working on payroll also pay social security and medicare that they never collect.
And......then the void for more illegal slave like labor is filled by yet a higher number of illegal aliens. That sounds like a recipe for disaster.

To avoid the Parent/Kid connection is like saying your eggs somehow got into your omelette by immaculate conception.
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Old 10-16-2011, 05:51 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,567,458 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
And......then the void for more illegal slave like labor is filled by yet a higher number of illegal aliens. That sounds like a recipe for disaster.

To avoid the Parent/Kid connection is like saying your eggs somehow got into your omelette by immaculate conception.
Citizenship occurs at birth and has no connection to how that birth was orchestrated.

Actually no. There are only a limited number of heads left in the appropriate Mexican demographic. So we can't screw up too bad. There are other groups that might try it but they lack the convenient access to a border. And the Mexicans make it pretty difficult for others to get at the border they used.

Then again of course with the alternative presently adopted they all end up here anyway....so why not try anyway?
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