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Old 09-13-2011, 05:37 AM
 
1,574 posts, read 789,250 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
We the people are deprived. It costs the us government billions dealing with ID theft, tracking down fraud. We the people are most certainly the victim.
"We" (americans in the aggregate) do spend a lot to deal with identity theft. However, that cost is related to ID theft related to living people. If you have some data that shows there is a significant cost to tracking down fraud in cases of illegals using dead people's SSNs, I'd certainly be interested in seeing it.

And again, even if there is a big cost here, there is a simple solution.

Quote:
You say they pay taxes. And some certainly do. And some receive great returns due to being able to claim wages at poverty level. And to say the illegal is the victim? That is to say the car jacker is a victim because he isn't allowed to use his stolen car as a trade in. The illegal if anything is a victim of their own crimes and dishonest behaviors. In short they are a victim of their own decision making.
Who said the illegal is the victim?

 
Old 09-13-2011, 05:39 AM
 
1,574 posts, read 789,250 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
It's no different than grave robbing. These sick freaks will search obituaries for some dead child or infant and prey off them, stealing their identities, and it's greed, no different than the greed that has grave robbers stealing jewelry or whatever else they covet from a deceased person. In many ways, stealing someone's identity is worse.

It's amazing you can defend even the most vile actions of illegals in their lust for easy money.
I'll just give up engaging you on the "it's no different" point and let the readers decide.

But, wow, in what ways is it worse?
 
Old 09-13-2011, 07:38 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
It's amazing how your position is so indefensible you can't go a single post without twisting facts or distorting.

Stealing the SSNs of living people can be malicious (and the malice or lack thereof would of course be completely independent of whether the offending party were a legal resident or not). Stealing dead people's would actually tend to indicate that one is not malicious.

The only evidence we have in this thread is of someone stealing a dead person's SSN.

Where do you stand on the comparison to physical grave robbing?
Identity theft involving the deceased is not only despicable, but it can and does create problems for their survivors, particularly spouses. People who steal the identities of the deceased do so for personal gain, just like those who steal the identities of the living. It certainly shouldn’t be considered a less egregious crime, or defended as being victimless. Crooks who steal the identities of the deceased do so because they think they will have greater success, not because they lack malice. They don’t care about harming others. They only care about not getting caught.

Quote:
The last thing family members and friends should have to deal with while mourning the loss of a loved one is repairing damage done by an identity thief stealing and using their loved one's financial information to drain their estate of all of its assets.

In Louisiana, three people were recently arrested for stealing the identities of more than 100 deceased individuals. One of the alleged perpetrators worked in a hospital emergency room and would send text messages containing the personal identifying information of dying patients to her grown son. Her son and his wife would then apply for credit cards using the deceased's information.
Disgusting!

AG - Identity Theft: Deceased Victims

Quote:
In just over the course of one year, the IRS has admitted to processing and paying out approximately $12 million in tax claims that have proven to be fraudulent. [1] These paid claims had been submitted with the use of stolen Social Security Numbers along with the stolen names of 5,108 deceased individuals. Amazingly, every one of the claims had been processed under a single tax preparer electronic identification number. The number had, for some reason, not been red flagged and therefore not blocked by the IRS computer screening programs. These programs are designed to detect potential fraudulent refund activity.

This unusual disclosure was indicated in a “Complaint for Forfeiture” lawsuit that was filed by the government in Florida. That lawsuit sought to keep money seized by federal agents in the amount of $851,832 from several Bank of America accounts along with $760,035 seized from JP Morgan Chase Bank accounts. All of the cash seized were deemed proceeds from this particular IRS identity theft scam.

All of the fraudulent refund claims are from the 2009 calendar year and were filed under the names of individuals who had passed away in either 2009 or 2010. It’s been noted that this fraud may have been assisted by the fact that the Social Security Death Index is available publically.
IRS Refunds Tax Funds To 5,000 Deceased In Identity Theft Scam

Quote:
But identity theft is not just a problem for the living anymore. One of the newest offshoots of this ever growing problem is called “ghosting”.4 Ghosting occurs when the identity of a deceased person is stolen.
NCSTL

It is beyond my realm of comprehension how anyone can consider themselves to be a moral human being, yet defend or try to marginalize such vile behavior.
 
Old 09-13-2011, 07:57 AM
 
1,574 posts, read 789,250 times
Reputation: 124
Benicar,

is it the same as physical grave robbing, in your opinion?
 
Old 09-13-2011, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
Benicar,

is it the same as physical grave robbing, in your opinion?

Not in a literal sense. They aren’t exhuming bodies. But, it IS equally repulsive, and a sickening and hurtful experience for the families of the deceased.

However, apparently some believe the analogy is valid, as evidenced by the title of my third linked article: "Ghosting. . . . Grave Robbery for the 21st Century"
 
Old 09-13-2011, 08:31 AM
 
Location: Jewel Lake (Sagle) Idaho
25,351 posts, read 16,290,366 times
Reputation: 14077
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
Even when you cherry-pick quotes about this, you pick a totally victimless crime to crow about.
ID theft is a victimless crime? If you believe that, post your SS number and bank account numbers here.
 
Old 09-13-2011, 09:03 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,149,569 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
ID theft is a victimless crime? If you believe that, post your SS number and bank account numbers here.
Lol!
 
Old 09-13-2011, 09:08 AM
 
1,574 posts, read 789,250 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
ID theft is a victimless crime? If you believe that, post your SS number and bank account numbers here.
It might help if you actually read the thread before posting something like that.
 
Old 09-13-2011, 12:18 PM
 
3,204 posts, read 2,383,737 times
Reputation: 1544
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
OK, fine. Until it's shown that significant numbers of illegals ARE fraudulently using SSNs of living people, though, you can't just claim that's the default assumption. With the information we have now, my explanation is (much) more plausible. I'm fine with that.



Analogies aren't diversions. Though I can see how it might seem that way for you.

Uh, no, we don't take your default position when you can't substantiate it.

When your analogies have no bearing on the topic they are diversions.

PS: There is a whole new market for people to PAY to have their socials protected. I'm not insinuating that this is due totally to illegals. I'm sure it's a coincidence that the problem has gotten so much worse in the past decade or so.
 
Old 09-13-2011, 12:29 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 789,250 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isitmeorarethingsnuts? View Post
Uh, no, we don't take your default position when you can't substantiate it.
Oh, so we should accept the other default position? Guilty until proven innocent!

Quote:
When your analogies have no bearing on the topic they are diversions.

PS: There is a whole new market for people to PAY to have their socials protected. I'm not insinuating that this is due totally to illegals. I'm sure it's a coincidence that the problem has gotten so much worse in the past decade or so.
See, THAT is a diversion. A little drive-by snipe, no substance at all, no actual accusation, just an inflamatory remark.

You must be learning from the master.

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