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Old 09-16-2011, 06:43 AM
 
Location: Massachusetts
10,032 posts, read 6,880,015 times
Reputation: 4207

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvdxer View Post
Let's say there's a community known for rampant illegal immigration. Of the Hispanic population, an estimated 70% of them are undocumented. Let's also say that it is in a state that recently adopted Arizona-like laws, but stricter. Basically, if a police officer merely suspects that you are an illegal alien (there would perhaps be some "grounds" for the suspicion required, but they would be very light), he can check your ID on the spot. Various groups charge that the law goes against the U.S. constitution, and are preparing the state for a battle in court, but that is the law as it stands.

Should police officers be able to stand on the sidewalk at a church or reception hall hosting a quinceañera party, and when the limo arrives, pull random people out for ID checks?

Should they be able to send squads to do random ID checks after a Mexican restaurant closes and sends its employees home? Should they be able to do a sting operation at a storefront "Envio de Dinero" (cash transfer) shop, perhaps with officers hiding around the block, and randomly check IDs?

I'd be interested to know.

Let's say that there was a bank robbery in my town. The police would establish a perimiter and stop anyone who matched the description or appered to be suspicious. Why is this any different? I've been stopped and briefly detained twice in my life in similar situations. One time I was in my own yard and there had been a break in. The police questioned me and I showed ID. They thanked me for cooperating and moved on. If I had made a big issue out of it things would have gone differently.
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Old 09-16-2011, 07:20 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,923,670 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Roma View Post
Let's say that there was a bank robbery in my town. The police would establish a perimiter and stop anyone who matched the description or appered to be suspicious. Why is this any different? I've been stopped and briefly detained twice in my life in similar situations. One time I was in my own yard and there had been a break in. The police questioned me and I showed ID. They thanked me for cooperating and moved on. If I had made a big issue out of it things would have gone differently.
Pretty much. Some folks like to give the police a hard time no matter what.
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Old 09-16-2011, 07:43 AM
 
Location: Nebraska
4,179 posts, read 9,139,998 times
Reputation: 9523
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
Nope. Cop can't legally ask. Has to have a reason. An ICE officer could ask..but again I think he needs a rationale.
What, ya'll have never been caught in a traffic dragnet? Where the cops stop every car and check IDs? If you are driving you need a license to operate the vehicle, and proof of insurance, or you go to jail. If you start talking about your constitutional rights, and refuse to show any ID, like as not the cops will pull you out of line and run your tags, search you and your vehicle, etc. Refusing to show an ID "indicates" criminal intent or purpose. Refusing to show verification of insurance means that you are a potential uninsured risk on the road, because the taxpaying, insurance-buying, legal citizens will have to foot the bills if you crash into them.

You need ID to rent a car, get a motel room, get a real job, write a check, open a bank account, buy a plane ticket, buy liquor, buy cigarettes, and sometimes in some places even to buy decongestants. You can holler about your rights all you want - and do without - or you can show your ID. If you think you have rights, you do - as long as you want or want to do nothing that requires an ID. The fact that some banks don't require IDs from some people, or some stores don't check your ID for liquor or cigarette purchases, does not mean that they can't.

If you want to live here, drive here, work here, buy items here, or get 'freebies' here at the expense of taxpaying legal citizens, you should have to provide an ID - and if you can't, you should be sent "home". Legal immigrants go thru all the trouble to be legally certified as residents, and letting illegals slide thru the cracks means that all of us who are taxpaying legal residents are merely registered with that evil ol' police state - to foot the bills for those who won't.
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Old 09-16-2011, 07:55 AM
 
1,574 posts, read 791,691 times
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Amazing how far people will bend and twist to come up with rationales to turn the USA into a police state.
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Old 09-16-2011, 01:15 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,022,544 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCGranny View Post
...Refusing to show an ID "indicates" criminal intent or purpose...
Nope, and not providing consent to search doesn't equate to Probable Cause for police...

I'm with rhymetime on this, and find it hard to believe why some would call themselves "American" for their stance...
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Old 09-16-2011, 01:24 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,172,244 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Nope, and not providing consent to search doesn't equate to Probable Cause for police...

I'm with rhymetime on this, and find it hard to believe why some would call themselves "American" for their stance...
Yet defending and advocating for amnesty/legalization for illegal aliens in our country and non-enforcement of our immigration laws is of course an "American" stance, right?
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Old 09-16-2011, 01:34 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 791,691 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Yet defending and advocating for amnesty/legalization for illegal aliens in our country and non-enforcement of our immigration laws is of course an "American" stance, right?
Yeah, our country was founded on the ideals of building walls and keeping different people OUT!
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Old 09-16-2011, 01:39 PM
 
9,243 posts, read 7,118,732 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
yeah, our country was founded on the ideals of building walls and keeping different people out!
illegals & Foreign invaders
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Old 09-16-2011, 01:41 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,576,938 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCGranny View Post
What, ya'll have never been caught in a traffic dragnet? Where the cops stop every car and check IDs? If you are driving you need a license to operate the vehicle, and proof of insurance, or you go to jail. If you start talking about your constitutional rights, and refuse to show any ID, like as not the cops will pull you out of line and run your tags, search you and your vehicle, etc. Refusing to show an ID "indicates" criminal intent or purpose. Refusing to show verification of insurance means that you are a potential uninsured risk on the road, because the taxpaying, insurance-buying, legal citizens will have to foot the bills if you crash into them.

You need ID to rent a car, get a motel room, get a real job, write a check, open a bank account, buy a plane ticket, buy liquor, buy cigarettes, and sometimes in some places even to buy decongestants. You can holler about your rights all you want - and do without - or you can show your ID. If you think you have rights, you do - as long as you want or want to do nothing that requires an ID. The fact that some banks don't require IDs from some people, or some stores don't check your ID for liquor or cigarette purchases, does not mean that they can't.

If you want to live here, drive here, work here, buy items here, or get 'freebies' here at the expense of taxpaying legal citizens, you should have to provide an ID - and if you can't, you should be sent "home". Legal immigrants go thru all the trouble to be legally certified as residents, and letting illegals slide thru the cracks means that all of us who are taxpaying legal residents are merely registered with that evil ol' police state - to foot the bills for those who won't.
Pretty much all nonsense. The right of americans to be free of unlawful search and seizure is well established in the Constitution. If you find it so unthinkable you might be happier in some other country.

The act of driving requires that one show an ID that you are able to do so and have proper insurance. That deals with the privilege of driving not with ones right to be free of unlawful search and seizure.

It is the government that is restricted in it ability to check identity. We Americans believe it is a good idea that the government not be allowed to keep track of people in their lawful endeavor. Unless you are doing something that the police at least believe is unlawful they have no right to know who you are or where you are going or what you are doing.
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Old 09-16-2011, 03:41 PM
Sco
 
4,259 posts, read 4,096,776 times
Reputation: 3354
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
Pretty much all nonsense. The right of americans to be free of unlawful search and seizure is well established in the Constitution. If you find it so unthinkable you might be happier in some other country.

The act of driving requires that one show an ID that you are able to do so and have proper insurance. That deals with the privilege of driving not with ones right to be free of unlawful search and seizure.

It is the government that is restricted in it ability to check identity. We Americans believe it is a good idea that the government not be allowed to keep track of people in their lawful endeavor. Unless you are doing something that the police at least believe is unlawful they have no right to know who you are or where you are going or what you are doing.
Great Post!!! I cannot understand how so many people that consider themselves patriotic Americans can't grasp the simple concepts outlined in your post.
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