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Old 09-16-2011, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,881,481 times
Reputation: 6517

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
Yeah, our country was founded on the ideals of building walls and keeping different people OUT!
Actually the constitution was designed to be a living document. Adaptable to change. That change being dictated by the needs of the nation. The needs of 1776 and the needs of 2012 being somewhat different. I doubt the writers of the constituion ever invisioned the scumbag lawyers of today, nor the career politicians. Do you really think that they envisioned millions crossing into our country when we had a population of over 300 million?
Do you think they envisioned politicians spending miilions to be elected for a job that pays 174G? Do you think they prdicted elected reps even being paid that much? I doubt it. Seriously do you really believe they would have treated immigrants from south america as equals?
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Old 09-18-2011, 02:13 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 788,884 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Actually the constitution was designed to be a living document. Adaptable to change.

...

Seriously do you really believe they would have treated immigrants from south america as equals?
I'm not really sure what you're saying here. First you start out saying we should be changing with the times. Then you appeal some imaginary notion of what the founding fathers' personal preferences *might* have been as a guide for how we should be operating today?

Pick one or the other.
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Old 09-18-2011, 03:39 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,881,481 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
I'm not really sure what you're saying here. First you start out saying we should be changing with the times. Then you appeal some imaginary notion of what the founding fathers' personal preferences *might* have been as a guide for how we should be operating today?

Pick one or the other.
The point is referencing what our nation was founded on 235 years ago is nonsense because the situation was completely different. You made a point to bring up that the ideals of building walls etc. Sarcasm was noted.
I'm saying we cant rely on those values as being valid today. They werent faced with 10+ million illegals nor were they concerned about it as we needed a lot of labor to build a nation.
Today the nation is built. Now its a matter of maintaining or improving.
Further more to elude that somehow our founding fathers would be accepting or to feel the same way if they magically appeared today is also flawed.
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Old 09-18-2011, 06:00 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 788,884 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
The point is referencing what our nation was founded on 235 years ago is nonsense because the situation was completely different. You made a point to bring up that the ideals of building walls etc. Sarcasm was noted.
I'm saying we cant rely on those values as being valid today. They werent faced with 10+ million illegals nor were they concerned about it as we needed a lot of labor to build a nation.
Today the nation is built. Now its a matter of maintaining or improving.
Further more to elude that somehow our founding fathers would be accepting or to feel the same way if they magically appeared today is also flawed.
Ok, so we can't rely on those values, then whatever point you were trying to make about how you just assumed that the founding fathers would not like lazy mexicans moving into their neighborhoods was...?
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Old 09-18-2011, 06:43 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,881,481 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
Ok, so we can't rely on those values, then whatever point you were trying to make about how you just assumed that the founding fathers would not like lazy mexicans moving into their neighborhoods was...?
whoa hold on. Please show me a post where I have ever referred to Mexicans as being lazy...
Once again and this is like 10 times you either misquote or add words.
The founding fathers were slave owners and like the majority of whites in the day felt all other races were inferior. That is the premise upon which I conclude they would not greet 10 million illegals from south of the border with open arms.
You are the first ever to make my blocked list. I have asked you repeatedly not to misquote me or put words in my mouth. I reply to your post civil and expect the same in return. You make a post that basically accuses me of a racist or prejudice statement.
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Old 09-18-2011, 08:11 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 788,884 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
whoa hold on. Please show me a post where I have ever referred to Mexicans as being lazy...
Once again and this is like 10 times you either misquote or add words.
I'm not saying YOU said they were lazy.

Quote:
The founding fathers were slave owners and like the majority of whites in the day felt all other races were inferior. That is the premise upon which I conclude they would not greet 10 million illegals from south of the border with open arms.
Yes, I agree with you but the point is that your own reasoning is IT DOESN'T MATTER either way, so why even bring it up?

The only reason I brought up "the founding fathers" is because other people were talking about what is the "American" thing to do in certain situations. So this whole thread hijack should probably be taken up with those guys, not me.

Quote:
You are the first ever to make my blocked list. I have asked you repeatedly not to misquote me or put words in my mouth. I reply to your post civil and expect the same in return. You make a post that basically accuses me of a racist or prejudice statement.
lol

Yes, you get bent out of shape about this a lot and in each case I actually never did put words in your mouth.
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Old 09-18-2011, 09:07 PM
 
Location: Inis Fada
16,685 posts, read 27,887,589 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvdxer View Post
Let's say there's a community known for rampant illegal immigration. Of the Hispanic population, an estimated 70% of them are undocumented. Let's also say that it is in a state that recently adopted Arizona-like laws, but stricter. Basically, if a police officer merely suspects that you are an illegal alien (there would perhaps be some "grounds" for the suspicion required, but they would be very light), he can check your ID on the spot. Various groups charge that the law goes against the U.S. constitution, and are preparing the state for a battle in court, but that is the law as it stands.

Should police officers be able to stand on the sidewalk at a church or reception hall hosting a quinceañera party, and when the limo arrives, pull random people out for ID checks?

Should they be able to send squads to do random ID checks after a Mexican restaurant closes and sends its employees home? Should they be able to do a sting operation at a storefront "Envio de Dinero" (cash transfer) shop, perhaps with officers hiding around the block, and randomly check IDs?

I'd be interested to know.

While I am opposed to illegal immigration from ANY country, I feel the examples (Quincenera limo, following Mex. restaurants) you gave above are intrusive, an abuse of power and leave agencies open to lawsuits. After all, if we do allow this to happen to people who we assume are illegal by virtue of their appearance, how much longer before we are singled out because we look like a terrorist, drug runner, etc?

If a LEO pulls over a car for a traffic infraction -- all occupants should be required to provide ID if requested. There was a story out of VT where a USC was pulled over and happened to have two illegal immigrants in his car. VSP turned them over to BP. Some locals made a big issue out of it. It ticks me off that for years, many people were stopped on I-91 southbound for BP checks -- and that was probably acceptable to the very group making a fuss -- but when our agencies do their job, its not.

As far as Envio stores -- they should be shut down. ALL money transfers out of the US should be handled via wire service through one's banking institution. Money wired out of the country should be reported to the feds like my exchanges are reported (thanks Patriot Act.)
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Old 09-18-2011, 09:12 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 788,884 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhBeeHave View Post
If a LEO pulls over a car for a traffic infraction -- all occupants should be required to provide ID if requested.
It's been mentioned before, citizens are not required to carry ID.
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Old 09-18-2011, 09:24 PM
 
Location: Inis Fada
16,685 posts, read 27,887,589 times
Reputation: 7177
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
It's been mentioned before, citizens are not required to carry ID.
While they aren't required to carry ID, as has been mentioned before, it's a good idea in the event of an accident.

How many responsible, law-abiding adults do you know who go out of the house without their wallet or purse?
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Old 09-18-2011, 09:42 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 788,884 times
Reputation: 124
Regardless of how many do decide to do that voluntarily, they're still not required to do it. So people can't be required to present something they're not required to carry.
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