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Old 09-17-2011, 11:50 AM
 
Location: in a cabin overlooking the mountains
3,079 posts, read 3,573,769 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Apparently you don´t think that Germans (and other VWP countries) need Immigrant Visas to immigrate to the United States either.
Why do you persist in trying to put such idiotic words in my mouth?

Anyone who bothers to read what I post will see that your remark is pulled out of the thin air. I suspect it comes from your own bitterness.

Quote:
The VWP does not allow for immigrant intent, check the rules. It is for a more limited time, and those in the VWP give up all ability for an immigration hearing if they violate the terms. In the case that Consular and CBP officials are making unlawful allowances for certain nationalities against those immigration law requirements, they need to answer to the American public.
I did check the rules. There is an exception for immediate relatives who are indeed permitted to apply for an adjustment of status once they are here even if they entered under the VWP. So put simply, if a US citizen is married to a foreign national who is a citizen of a country that is covered by the VWP, they can
a) enter the US without a visa
and
b) apply for an adjustment in status to become permanent legal residents once they are here.
Quote:
The INA lists several categories of aliens to whom adjustment is legally unavailable, which are discussed below:
...
An alien (other than an immediate relative) who was admitted as a nonimmigrant visitor without a visa under section 212(l) [visa waiver for B-1/B-2 admission to Guam] or section 217 [visa waiver program] is barred from adjustment of status.
ADJUSTMENT OF STATUS

That is just the way it is. Don't blame me, Immigration or anyone else because you do not understand the law and policies as well as you claim to.

Last edited by FrugalYankee; 09-17-2011 at 12:14 PM..
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Old 09-17-2011, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,009,391 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrugalYankee View Post
Why do you persist in trying to put such idiotic words in my mouth?...

...So put simply, if a US citizen is married to a foreign national who is a citizen of a country that is covered by the VWP, they can

a) enter the US without a visa
Why do you attempt to validate the exact concept that I am paraphrasing for you, after saying I am putting words in your mouth?...

If CBP officials allow VWP-country nationals to game a non-immigrant system for the purposes of immigration it is wrong. These ¨legal immigrants¨ are sneaking in using the VWP to conceal their immigrant intent. I´m sure that could make spouses and family members of other U.S. citizens very angry, as they are waiting in ¨the line¨ to enter the United States legally, without any misrepresentation.

You need to read deeper into the VWP references you quote. From there you see that the Adjustment of Status cases are from entering as unmarried, then within the 90 days of the VWP, marrying a U.S. citizen (in other words, misusing the VWP as an I-129 Fianc(é)e Visa, and avoiding its petition fee), and trying to adjust to immigrant status. Immigration lawyers (gaming the VWP system) advise their clients to marry within a particular portion of that 90 day period, so that they can minimize a perception of immigrant intent.

See, if you marry in the first month of the VWP period, it looks like you had a preconceived immigrant intent. Too late, and it looks like you are getting married to avoid going home after 90 days. The immigration lawyer say that you need to hit that Goldilocks moment, where it doesn´t look so much like you were abusing the Visa Waiver Program (there is your ¨Green Card Marriage¨ malamute).

Really, attempting to immigrate on a non-immigrant visa (EDIT: or program) invalidates the terms, and is considered fraudulent misrepresentation. Whether you want to believe that as ¨legal immigration¨ is up to you. Perhaps we can make you more comfortable in your beliefs by just talking about Mexicans again.

You´re ruining the concept that only Latinos are gaming the system, and that the system isn´t fair for those that want to immigrate from Europe...

That poor Marine´s wife, getting frustrated with the length of time to get legally admitted...

If she had only been German...
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Old 09-17-2011, 04:31 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,690,207 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
My wife (we were married over a year and a half at that point) had the Consular Official shout ¨NO!¨ and throw our immigration paperwork at her when she truthfully answered that she didn´t have any idea where her ex-husband that abandoned her and their children seven years earlier was...

That was our second K-3 application, the first was denied because I followed that Consulate´s instructions (still undoubtedly up today, uncorrected) to file for the K-3 and Immigrant petitions at the same time. USCIS delayed forwarding her I-130 through their system, and it was marked as received 12 days after the K-3. Two and a half months later, with both petitions paired together for most of that time in front of him, the adjudicator denied the K-3 on that basis.

It´s not just me, that is CDJ U.S. Consulate policy to exclude the U.S. citizen spouse/sponsor from the proceedings...

Apparently our experiences are different, but it is the Misrepresentation immigration violations I have heard from in this thread that concerns me more...

Making my family go through an eighteen-month wait to be admitted, while others can break immigration law with no consequences...
And if another marriage caused delays in your wife being allowed to be here legally, that's the problem with getting or wanting to be married when one is already legally married to someone else, not so much about harsh treatment of immigrants.

I know a Native American woman who married a guy from Mexico but it turned out he was already married and it was his other wife who turned him in and had INS going after him for immigration fraud and bigamy.

"Abandonment" can be a bit difficult to prove legally and the fact that someone is here now in the USA claiming to be abandoned in another country can be a hold up for the very obvious reasons and it's really the immigrant's responsibility to legally end their marriage before trying for the green card marriage here. I know a guy whose legal wife back home won't sign the divorce papers because he wants to find a US citizen to marry so he can stay here as he's hee illegally now. He's also claiming abandonment but he's the one who first left the family. He once filed some kind of paper to be here legally and put down that he was single hoping they wouldn't find out he wasn't but I don't believe that paper ever got anywhere anyhow so he's probably not in any problem for lying on it.

I'm surprised it's as easy as it is for someone to take their children to another country and far away from the other parent who may then not be able to see the children.
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Old 09-17-2011, 05:09 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,009,391 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
And if another marriage caused delays in your wife being allowed to be here legally, that's the problem with getting or wanting to be married when one is already legally married to someone else, not so much about harsh treatment of immigrants...
And if you would pay attention, you would know for immigration processing involving marriage, both parties need to have previous marriages terminated...

All of this snipping away, and I seem to be the only one correcting someone else saying a non-immigrant program can be misused fraudulently to immigrate to the United States...
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Old 09-18-2011, 08:53 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,690,207 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
And if you would pay attention, you would know for immigration processing involving marriage, both parties need to have previous marriages terminated...

All of this snipping away, and I seem to be the only one correcting someone else saying a non-immigrant program can be misused fraudulently to immigrate to the United States...
Yes but I think you're bitter toward certain immigrants but consider your own case special and resent the system because it didn't immedicately process your wife even with her special circumstances.

At least with this German woman it doesn't mention any existing marriages or other problems. There is no reason to suspect anything but a real marriage in their case, not even a real second or third or fourth marriage. They are married but they didn't carefully follow the laws and now are paying the price - although that assumes that life is plain miserable in the other country and that's not always the case.

Yes the laws are inconvenient at times for some people. But they are there for a reason. It's probably best that the USA respect family law in other countries as much as possible but that means it respects legal marriages in those countries and just like in the USA, divorce isn't easy when a spouse claims not to know where the other is - of course many don't but it means going through some difficult steps of trying to notify the other. Apparently Mexican law requires the spouse being divorced from to sign some document and if they cannot be found or refuse to sign it, it delays the divorce, maybe it's just like here were they try to serve papers on the other spouse so they are aware of the divorce.

I don't think anyone is losing sleep over the fact that this couple is back in Germany, and they can "serve their sentence" over there if they choose to see it that way or they can enjoy their time in her country if they choose to see it positively. Just like all those couples living in Mexico -- and there is much to enjoy and see in Mexico so I also don't lose sleep over people living there.
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Old 09-18-2011, 09:00 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,144,640 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Yes but I think you're bitter toward certain immigrants but consider your own case special and resent the system because it didn't immedicately process your wife even with her special circumstances.

At least with this German woman it doesn't mention any existing marriages or other problems. There is no reason to suspect anything but a real marriage in their case, not even a real second or third or fourth marriage. They are married but they didn't carefully follow the laws and now are paying the price - although that assumes that life is plain miserable in the other country and that's not always the case.

Yes the laws are inconvenient at times for some people. But they are there for a reason. It's probably best that the USA respect family law in other countries as much as possible but that means it respects legal marriages in those countries and just like in the USA, divorce isn't easy when a spouse claims not to know where the other is - of course many don't but it means going through some difficult steps of trying to notify the other. Apparently Mexican law requires the spouse being divorced from to sign some document and if they cannot be found or refuse to sign it, it delays the divorce, maybe it's just like here were they try to serve papers on the other spouse so they are aware of the divorce.

I don't think anyone is losing sleep over the fact that this couple is back in Germany, and they can "serve their sentence" over there if they choose to see it that way or they can enjoy their time in her country if they choose to see it positively. Just like all those couples living in Mexico -- and there is much to enjoy and see in Mexico so I also don't lose sleep over people living there.
Excellent post Malamute, and I think you nailed it including the bitterness part. There are mitigating circumstances in every situation. I certainly wouldn't be so bitter that I would turn on my own country's immigration laws and side with foreign nationals in our country illegally just because they are from my spouse's ethnic/national group. I certainly wouldn't view my fellow citizens who want our immigration laws enforced as the enemy either.
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Old 09-18-2011, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,009,391 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Yes but I think you're bitter toward certain immigrants but consider your own case special and resent the system because it didn't immedicately process your wife even with her special circumstances.

At least with this German woman it doesn't mention any existing marriages or other problems. There is no reason to suspect anything but a real marriage in their case, not even a real second or third or fourth marriage. They are married but they didn't carefully follow the laws and now are paying the price - although that assumes that life is plain miserable in the other country and that's not always the case.

Yes the laws are inconvenient at times for some people. But they are there for a reason. It's probably best that the USA respect family law in other countries as much as possible but that means it respects legal marriages in those countries and just like in the USA, divorce isn't easy when a spouse claims not to know where the other is - of course many don't but it means going through some difficult steps of trying to notify the other. Apparently Mexican law requires the spouse being divorced from to sign some document and if they cannot be found or refuse to sign it, it delays the divorce, maybe it's just like here were they try to serve papers on the other spouse so they are aware of the divorce.

I don't think anyone is losing sleep over the fact that this couple is back in Germany, and they can "serve their sentence" over there if they choose to see it that way or they can enjoy their time in her country if they choose to see it positively. Just like all those couples living in Mexico -- and there is much to enjoy and see in Mexico so I also don't lose sleep over people living there.
Mmmm, but there must be something to all your little stories of living among illegal aliens. You didn´t read in the same paragraph where my wife´s previous husband abandoned her in Mexico seven years before our U.S. Consulate appointment? Along with the other documents thrown back at my wife was the court orders she got terminating his rights as the childrens´ father, and seeking monetary support if he was able to be located.

We´re still looking for the wretch, he might be in Chaipas. The amazing thing to me is that he has more parental rights over my stepchildren in the United States, where he does not reside, than in Mexico. But those are the international laws you are talking about.

The ¨special circumstances¨ were instead for me, my Navy command had a drafted notice we provided to the U.S. Consulate in Juarez that I was on deployment orders, to Anbar Province, Iraq, for an undetermined length of time. My previous deployment, for the Army not so much earlier, was 15 months away from home in Kuwait and Iraq. Maybe we could have gone out for a cervesa together, as I departed and arrived from El Paso in full military gear.

Really, your uninformed perspective (as well as anyone that swallows it for their own views as truth) is flawed to the extreme...

And further speculation is REALLY going to irritate me, as you can´t take notice that the topic has developed to being about the fraudulent misrepresentation to immigrate to the United States under the Visa Waiver Program...

It is interesting when that doesn´t cause someone to lose sleep at night, at least when they can talk how bad the Mexicans are. This case is a clear example of using a non-immigrant visa or program fraudulently to immigrate to the United States when someone is ineligible to use it. Worse still, CBP isn´t following their own procedures (there was a previous case that caused them to tighten the policy), and is admitting someone without a valid visa (that also violated immigration law on her previous trip in this case) to the United States.

She wasn´t deported, but instead her and her husband left on the last possible day she was allowed to stay as a parolee...

By your silence, is fraudulent misrepresentation and misusing an ineligible non-immigrant program fine with you gals and guys? Avoiding following the rules and filing petitions with their rightful fees, so someone can play like they didn´t have immigrant intent all along? The potential for fraud is much higher with the Visa Waiver Program, but no one else here wants to discuss it rationally.

Just play it off as someone being bitter (his own country can´t get his family in the United States before wanting to send him out on a deployment), when there were ineligible Foreign Nationals fraudulently misrepresenting themselves to violate U.S. immigration laws, simply having to pay for a plane ticket to come...

I wish it had been that easy for my wife, with our fully legitimate marriage qualifying her for a Military Dependents ID Card that could get her on almost any secure U.S. military base world-wide, but not across the border to get into the United States...
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Old 09-18-2011, 02:31 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,807,269 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Mmmm, but there must be something to all your little stories of living among illegal aliens. You didn´t read in the same paragraph where my wife´s previous husband abandoned her in Mexico seven years before our U.S. Consulate appointment? Along with the other documents thrown back at my wife was the court orders she got terminating his rights as the childrens´ father, and seeking monetary support if he was able to be located.

We´re still looking for the wretch, he might be in Chaipas. The amazing thing to me is that he has more parental rights over my stepchildren in the United States, where he does not reside, than in Mexico. But those are the international laws you are talking about.

The ¨special circumstances¨ were instead for me, my Navy command had a drafted notice we provided to the U.S. Consulate in Juarez that I was on deployment orders, to Anbar Province, Iraq, for an undetermined length of time. My previous deployment, for the Army not so much earlier, was 15 months away from home in Kuwait and Iraq. Maybe we could have gone out for a cervesa together, as I departed and arrived from El Paso in full military gear.

Really, your uninformed perspective (as well as anyone that swallows it for their own views as truth) is flawed to the extreme...

And further speculation is REALLY going to irritate me, as you can´t take notice that the topic has developed to being about the fraudulent misrepresentation to immigrate to the United States under the Visa Waiver Program...

It is interesting when that doesn´t cause someone to lose sleep at night, at least when they can talk how bad the Mexicans are. This case is a clear example of using a non-immigrant visa or program fraudulently to immigrate to the United States when someone is ineligible to use it. Worse still, CBP isn´t following their own procedures (there was a previous case that caused them to tighten the policy), and is admitting someone without a valid visa (that also violated immigration law on her previous trip in this case) to the United States.

She wasn´t deported, but instead her and her husband left on the last possible day she was allowed to stay as a parolee...

By your silence, is fraudulent misrepresentation and misusing an ineligible non-immigrant program fine with you gals and guys? Avoiding following the rules and filing petitions with their rightful fees, so someone can play like they didn´t have immigrant intent all along? The potential for fraud is much higher with the Visa Waiver Program, but no one else here wants to discuss it rationally.

Just play it off as someone being bitter (his own country can´t get his family in the United States before wanting to send him out on a deployment), when there were ineligible Foreign Nationals fraudulently misrepresenting themselves to violate U.S. immigration laws, simply having to pay for a plane ticket to come...

I wish it had been that easy for my wife, with our fully legitimate marriage qualifying her for a Military Dependents ID Card that could get her on almost any secure U.S. military base world-wide, but not across the border to get into the United States...
Help me understand exactly what you expect from us. We have already stated we do not defend this woman’s actions. Nor has anyone expressed sorrow over her departure. Must you rant about your wife’s immigration experience in every other thread? I'm sorry, but it’s getting old. I assume you voluntarily joined the military, and understood an overseas deployment was a distinct possibility. Isn’t that the job you trained for? No one forced you to marry a non-citizen. That was your decision. Furthermore, isn’t your wife here with you, and didn’t you say she will soon become a naturalized citizen? Then, what the heck is your problem? Moreover, you are not the only person in this country whose spouse has endured our lengthy immigration process. In fact, my ex-husband’s immigration experience was far from a walk in the park. But, that’s life. For heaven’s sake, please give it a rest.
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Old 09-18-2011, 03:01 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,690,207 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
By your silence, is fraudulent misrepresentation and misusing an ineligible non-immigrant program fine with you gals and guys? Avoiding following the rules and filing petitions with their rightful fees, so someone can play like they didn´t have immigrant intent all along? The potential for fraud is much higher with the Visa Waiver Program, but no one else here wants to discuss it rationally.
Believe me -- no one is ranting and raving over illegals of any kind AFTER they are deported or AFTER they decided to abide by the laws and go home.

I asked before -- what would be the point in that? That's like ranting over someone paying a traffic ticket, only you want to continue to berate this woman because she returned to her own country and with her husband. Can't you accept that by returning home, she's doing the right thing?

There are also illegal Mexicans who have made the decision to go back home and no one objects to them once they do.
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Old 09-18-2011, 03:13 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,690,207 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
We´re still looking for the wretch, he might be in Chaipas. The amazing thing to me is that he has more parental rights over my stepchildren in the United States, where he does not reside, than in Mexico. But those are the international laws you are talking about.
And you don't have to marry a foreigner to run into problems of step children and biological fathers and failure to provide child support or even be found in the case of divorce. Those are the very same issues you might have with a citizen spouse with children who have a living dad out there somewhere, parental rights are difficult to terminate, especially without the consent of that parent. Like it or not, there are reasons for all those laws and difficulties, even if we are inconvenienced.

That's just a factor in making the immigration process more difficult, but that's life, sometimes the sun shines, sometimes there's rain.

As far as our country giving the father more rights than the step father than does Mexico, well -- it's your choice to live in the USA instead of Mexico where apparently the laws are more to your liking. And again, like it or not there are reasons for those laws, what if the other parent actually did want to have contact and the children were hustled over to this country to deny that parent his or her parental rights -- that can happen -- so there are laws to keep that from happening.
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