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Old 09-21-2011, 10:40 AM
 
9,243 posts, read 7,005,958 times
Reputation: 2199

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
So you admit the rules are not the same, the standards are not the same, and so forth. There is no question there.
Rules for illegals & citizens?
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Old 09-21-2011, 10:45 AM
 
616 posts, read 696,057 times
Reputation: 208
<-- Too Happy about this news.
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Old 09-21-2011, 10:50 AM
 
1,569 posts, read 994,024 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
At this point I dont even know what the discussion is about.
Are you saying that a citizen in Norway doesnt have the same opprotunity for a job in Arizona that say US citizen has? If thats the argument no duh.
My argument was that all qualifying immigrant applicants for immigration have the same opprotunity. All legal immigrants with a ssn have the same opprotunity for work.
Well, exactly. I've been saying this is a "duh" issue the whole time.

Backtrack this conversation to where it started. We were discussing the nature of competition. So obviously it matters for purposes of the economic benefits of competition that foreigners aren't on the same playing field.
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Old 09-21-2011, 11:05 AM
 
6,156 posts, read 3,925,021 times
Reputation: 1511
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isitmeorarethingsnuts? View Post
Competition is good when all the players are playing by the same rules. Well done.
Right? It ain't that complicated. These illegal apologists make me sick. Not to mention their total lack of logic.
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Old 09-21-2011, 11:15 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,311 posts, read 18,663,477 times
Reputation: 6510
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamBarrow View Post
Right? It ain't that complicated. These illegal apologists make me sick. Not to mention their total lack of logic.
Well hold on.
We can disagree with thier opinions and even fault their logic but I myself don't entirely fault the reasons they feel the way they do.
In a perfect world we dont need borders, or immigration laws or restrictions. I know I know we dont live in a perfect world....
But how does one move towards making it a better place???
I believe in my heart of hearts that thoose who advocate for a more relaxed immigration standard do so because they invision a world where all humans are the same and equal and have equal freedoms. Naive perhaps but one can admire the compassion and spirit of such an ideal.
I disagree with the pro-side as often and as strongly as anyone. But I can still respect the person.
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Old 09-21-2011, 11:17 AM
 
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
16,109 posts, read 19,918,593 times
Reputation: 8194
It's easy, if we make penalties on employers so severe that they have to pay a living wage they will hire Americans. Then there will be no way for illegals to remain here
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Old 09-21-2011, 11:21 AM
 
2,113 posts, read 2,213,175 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boompa View Post
It's easy, if we make penalties on employers so severe that they have to pay a living wage they will hire Americans. Then there will be no way for illegals to remain here
They can still remain here thanks to our generous social services. That should be changed too.
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Old 09-21-2011, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,658,867 times
Reputation: 3026
Quote:
Originally Posted by mateo45 View Post
Not surprisingly, few states have chosen to follow AZ's "lead" on immigration, mostly because they did the math and figured out they just can't afford it (due to the legal cost from defending lawsuits, the added resources needed to implement, and most of all the economic damage to their respective states). Basically, once you get past all the rhetoric, it turns out the negatives far outweigh the dubious "positives".

And as already noted, the majority of folks everywhere have more important priorities right now. Besides, the only ones really making a big fuss about "illegals" aren't professionals or hi-skills jobs anyway. Instead, they mostly just seem to be low-income, unskilled whites who resent facing added competition now in the low-end of the job market. For example you never hear about computer programmers, managers, teachers, engineers, or doctors complaining about "illegals"!
Wrong! I have absolutely nothing to fear in the job market from an illiterate, low-skilled illegal alien. Neither do most people I know who vehemently oppose this invasion, including my ex-husband, a cardiovascular surgeon, who is also a legal “Hispanic” immigrant. Countless professionals (and minorities) oppose illegal immigration. The fact that you assume only low-skilled whites are anti-illegal, is a clear indication that you don’t interact with many professionals or minorities. No, you generally don’t see us participating in protest marches. But, we are actively fighting on behalf of our fellow Americans whose lives have been impacted by the illegal influx of cheap labor. Make no mistake.
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Old 09-21-2011, 12:15 PM
 
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
8,367 posts, read 8,161,111 times
Reputation: 5891
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Wrong! I have absolutely nothing to fear in the job market from an illiterate, low-skilled illegal alien. Neither do most people I know who vehemently oppose this invasion, including my ex-husband, a cardiovascular surgeon, who is also a legal “Hispanic” immigrant. Countless professionals (and minorities) oppose illegal immigration. The fact that you assume only low-skilled whites are anti-illegal, is a clear indication that you don’t interact with many professionals or minorities. No, you generally don’t see us participating in protest marches. But, we are actively fighting on behalf of our fellow Americans whose lives have been impacted by the illegal influx of cheap labor. Make no mistake.
"Hispanic" is actually a pretty broad term, and Mexicans (which is really what the racist "illegals" rucus is all about) are a very different political and social culture than, say, east coast Cubans, who are usually much more "vocal" and reactionary (kinda like their noisy "poor white" allies).

Although ironically, I wouldn't be surprised if even "hispanic" surgeons encounter prejudice as well.

As far as questioning my own daily "interactions", I deal with the public all the time as a landlord and real estate investor. And re: my own experience with various "minorities", you did notice that I live in California, right (duh)?!
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Old 09-21-2011, 12:36 PM
 
3,203 posts, read 2,354,607 times
Reputation: 1543
Quote:
Originally Posted by mateo45 View Post
Last time I checked your location, Utah receives $1.07 in federal money for every dollar it puts in. So when y'all can take care of yourselves and quit being a net drain on the the rest of us, then we can entertain your brilliant ideas for further "improving" things....

Being from the left coast, which is the pinnacle of fiscal responsibility, I'm shocked that you would want to go there. What will the excuse be when the big windfall of a Federal bailout comes your way? I'm shocked it didn't happen when Obama had the house and the senate...but the timing wasn't right.

Perhaps if the states weren't forced to subsidize those here illegally the numbers would change. It's sad that the Feds can put mandates in place for the states but won't provide them with the Federal protection to insure the integrity of their constituents.

I'm guessing it costs more than 7 cents per dollar to cover the costs of illegals. Perhaps you can find a link proving me wrong.
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