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Old 09-12-2006, 06:34 AM
 
Location: Nowhere near Elko, NV
246 posts, read 204,279 times
Reputation: 52

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Quote:
Originally Posted by StampinTami View Post
Actually full time was considered at 32 hours a week. Part time workers could get benefits as well, they just had to pay a little more. If you read my post better, you would have seen that my Mom was in management and I never said my sis was. She was a regular ol floor person and she had benefits.

There was/is plenty of other places in town to work. Walmart actually pays better than most when you don't have many work skills or experience. The downtown was basically non existant way before Walmart came in. There was already a Target in town by the time WM came and hey, WM was paying more than Target did. I really don't think that they would have shut down that WM store if they went union. They were the most profitable store in Ca for the longest time. You missed the key point there- the employees did NOT want to go union!

I agree WM may not be the greatest but when it comes to how they treat their employees (benefits and such) they do alright and better than a lot of other places. How the upper management treats their employees is a totally different story as well.
Not to pick nits, the fact that full time is 32 hours doesn't change my point. Wal Mart will keep hours to 31.5 if that's what it takes to keep people off the benefit list.

It may be an isolated case in CA, and certainly unions don't come without their share of baggage...and at $5.50/hr who can afford to pay the dues? But you're mistaken if you think Wal Mart won't close a store that goes union.

But whether unions are a good thing or not, employees have the right to associate any way they wish. It's all about maintaining a healthy balance between labor and capital. When employers are too powerful or when unions are too powerful, you create an enivronment ripe for abuse. The auto industry is a good example of unions gone wild. Wal Mart is an example of when it goes too far in favor of capital.

And no, I'm not a Marxist.

Magpies
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Old 09-12-2006, 09:37 AM
 
Location: Walnut Grove, Georgia
126 posts, read 285,854 times
Reputation: 82
I think now I'm just going to sit back and read everyone else's post in this thread. I love debating. It' s just not as much fun to debate with uninformed, opinionated, know-it-alls with too much time on their hands. =) Some of whom are just flat out making things up as they go depending on what the thread is about, and you know who you are.
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Old 09-12-2006, 09:44 AM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,697,044 times
Reputation: 2086
Quote:
Originally Posted by butterbeans4 View Post
I agree. My husband does the trim and decks on new (and existing) homes here in Georgia and it's rampant amongst the builders here. We won't hire illegals either. And you're right, alot of people have no clue their homes were practically built from the ground up by illegals. That's also why I disagree with the person that wrote earlier in this thread about "fixing the problem starting with the consumer". How is the consumer supposed to know that their builder hired a subcontractor who hired a foreman whose staff is primarily illegals. Kind of a long chain to keep track of. I think if the employer is pinched hard enough in the pocket,( by gov. fines and esp. the IRS) then maybe we'll see a change. But so far no one is being held accountable(yet).

We had the same problem and lost our business because we couldnt keep up, wont hire illegals, it isnteasy to frame a house when you can only afford three legals and the other company can pay almost nothing for illegals and have 15 on one house. They dont get caught and dont care. Sad
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Old 09-12-2006, 09:45 AM
 
1,735 posts, read 4,138,522 times
Reputation: 1436
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagpiesMagpiesMagpies View Post
Not to pick nits, the fact that full time is 32 hours doesn't change my point. Wal Mart will keep hours to 31.5 if that's what it takes to keep people off the benefit list.

It may be an isolated case in CA, and certainly unions don't come without their share of baggage...and at $5.50/hr who can afford to pay the dues? But you're mistaken if you think Wal Mart won't close a store that goes union.

But whether unions are a good thing or not, employees have the right to associate any way they wish. It's all about maintaining a healthy balance between labor and capital. When employers are too powerful or when unions are too powerful, you create an enivronment ripe for abuse. The auto industry is a good example of unions gone wild. Wal Mart is an example of when it goes too far in favor of capital.

And no, I'm not a Marxist.

Magpies
The biggest problem with unions is that once they are established the union workers become more loyal to the union than the company that employs them. A perfect example is in the auto industry. Go to any ford or GM plant and you will see workers wearing hats with UAW labels and not the company’s labels. I know you don’t see that in the Toyota, BMW, etc. plants in the US.
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Old 09-12-2006, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,697,044 times
Reputation: 2086
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagpiesMagpiesMagpies View Post
That's the problem. You only believe what you see, or what you think you see.

There's a reason why Wal Mart is so rich and so **** cheap. They didn't get where they are today by supporting American manufacturing or fighting for American labor. They buy their crap from China, mark it up, and pack onto their margins by screwing what domestic labor they have. You can take the pollyanna point of view and say "well, folks on a budget can't afford to shop anywhere else". The factory bosses in Shenzhen thank you.

Magpies
Sorry but I have 4 kids and we work our butts off and yes Walmart is the only place we can afford to buy food from anymore, not our fault!!
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Old 09-12-2006, 10:02 AM
 
Location: Walnut Grove, Georgia
126 posts, read 285,854 times
Reputation: 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregsbabe1 View Post
We had the same problem and lost our business because we couldnt keep up, wont hire illegals, it isnteasy to frame a house when you can only afford three legals and the other company can pay almost nothing for illegals and have 15 on one house. They dont get caught and dont care. Sad
I know I wasn't going to post, but I had to respond to this. I'm sorry you lost your business, that had to be really hard. And You are so right. What you stated really happens. My husband goes into a job a builder has going in a new subdivision,the house is framed , drywalled, sided, sodded, roofed and finished by illegals. My husband does the trim, builds the deck, but can't get to the rest in the subdivision because they go up so fast, but the builders don't pay enough for him to hire Legal subs to get to the other houses in time. (esp. not when you add in the ridiculous amount you pay for workers comp. and gen liability) So he is replaced by a company that uses illegals, and all the quality work goes out the window so the builder can meet his bottom line. So my husband mostly works for homeowners now and occasional work for Design companies in Atlanta. Because you just can't compete with (unskilled) crews that can knock a deck out in a day, when your work is better, but it takes 2 and a half days instead. It's Quantity over Quality. There is one positive though, in a year or two when the deck that the illegals built is splitting apart and the trim is falling down, the homeowners hire us to fix it the right way. Go figure. =)
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Old 09-12-2006, 10:43 AM
 
Location: Stockton, Ca
313 posts, read 745,185 times
Reputation: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagpiesMagpiesMagpies View Post
Not to pick nits, the fact that full time is 32 hours doesn't change my point. Wal Mart will keep hours to 31.5 if that's what it takes to keep people off the benefit list.

It may be an isolated case in CA, and certainly unions don't come without their share of baggage...and at $5.50/hr who can afford to pay the dues? But you're mistaken if you think Wal Mart won't close a store that goes union.

But whether unions are a good thing or not, employees have the right to associate any way they wish. It's all about maintaining a healthy balance between labor and capital. When employers are too powerful or when unions are too powerful, you create an enivronment ripe for abuse. The auto industry is a good example of unions gone wild. Wal Mart is an example of when it goes too far in favor of capital.

And no, I'm not a Marxist.

Magpies

Thats fine. I still am sticking with what I said. If someone wanted 40 hours a week, they pretty much got it. I'm sure there were some that did not but there was usually a good reason why they didn't give it to them. Our labor laws are pretty good here in Ca so personally I think that unions are a waste. Before some of our labor laws were changed the unions did do a lot of good to help out workers.
I know that the employees have the right to associate how they wish. That was my point- they CHOSE not to have the union. There were many times that the union would come in there and have meetings with them. They would try to push them into having them come in to represent them. They didn't want it and they didn't want the unions harassing them about joining! This is how it was here in Ca. I am not saying that it is like that at all WM stores. I know that things are probably a lot diff in other states where there are most likely diff labor laws. My hubby just started a job with the county and he has to do the union thing. We don't want the union but yet we have to pay for it still.
Its so good to know that you know for a fact that WM would close a store that goes union. Maybe I should come to you with any questions I have, since you just know so much as fact. I was just sharing an experience since everyone was so anti WM and saying things that I knew was not fact for all WM's.
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Old 09-12-2006, 10:49 AM
 
Location: Stockton, Ca
313 posts, read 745,185 times
Reputation: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by butterbeans4 View Post
My husband goes into a job a builder has going in a new subdivision,the house is framed , drywalled, sided, sodded, roofed and finished by illegals. My husband does the trim, builds the deck, but can't get to the rest in the subdivision because they go up so fast, but the builders don't pay enough for him to hire Legal subs to get to the other houses in time. (esp. not when you add in the ridiculous amount you pay for workers comp. and gen liability) So he is replaced by a company that uses illegals, and all the quality work goes out the window so the builder can meet his bottom line. So my husband mostly works for homeowners now and occasional work for Design companies in Atlanta. Because you just can't compete with (unskilled) crews that can knock a deck out in a day, when your work is better, but it takes 2 and a half days instead. It's Quantity over Quality. There is one positive though, in a year or two when the deck that the illegals built is splitting apart and the trim is falling down, the homeowners hire us to fix it the right way. Go figure. =)
This is why we will not buy a new home! The quality of new homes is crap! Good for all of you that refuse to hire illegals and are following the laws! Thank you!
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Old 09-12-2006, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Nowhere near Elko, NV
246 posts, read 204,279 times
Reputation: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by StampinTami View Post
Thats fine. I still am sticking with what I said. If someone wanted 40 hours a week, they pretty much got it. I'm sure there were some that did not but there was usually a good reason why they didn't give it to them. Our labor laws are pretty good here in Ca so personally I think that unions are a waste. Before some of our labor laws were changed the unions did do a lot of good to help out workers.
I know that the employees have the right to associate how they wish. That was my point- they CHOSE not to have the union. There were many times that the union would come in there and have meetings with them. They would try to push them into having them come in to represent them. They didn't want it and they didn't want the unions harassing them about joining! This is how it was here in Ca. I am not saying that it is like that at all WM stores. I know that things are probably a lot diff in other states where there are most likely diff labor laws. My hubby just started a job with the county and he has to do the union thing. We don't want the union but yet we have to pay for it still.
Its so good to know that you know for a fact that WM would close a store that goes union. Maybe I should come to you with any questions I have, since you just know so much as fact. I was just sharing an experience since everyone was so anti WM and saying things that I knew was not fact for all WM's.
Unions can be a waste. They also can protect workers. Remember that next time you knock off for a weekend.

But you've confused two issues. Employees should have the right to associate any way they choose. Forcing workers into a union is as unfair as preventing them from joining.

Please do come to me for answers: usually right, never in doubt.

Magpies
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Old 09-12-2006, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,697,044 times
Reputation: 2086
Quote:
Originally Posted by butterbeans4 View Post
I know I wasn't going to post, but I had to respond to this. I'm sorry you lost your business, that had to be really hard. And You are so right. What you stated really happens. My husband goes into a job a builder has going in a new subdivision,the house is framed , drywalled, sided, sodded, roofed and finished by illegals. My husband does the trim, builds the deck, but can't get to the rest in the subdivision because they go up so fast, but the builders don't pay enough for him to hire Legal subs to get to the other houses in time. (esp. not when you add in the ridiculous amount you pay for workers comp. and gen liability) So he is replaced by a company that uses illegals, and all the quality work goes out the window so the builder can meet his bottom line. So my husband mostly works for homeowners now and occasional work for Design companies in Atlanta. Because you just can't compete with (unskilled) crews that can knock a deck out in a day, when your work is better, but it takes 2 and a half days instead. It's Quantity over Quality. There is one positive though, in a year or two when the deck that the illegals built is splitting apart and the trim is falling down, the homeowners hire us to fix it the right way. Go figure. =)
Yea he is getting more side work fixing their mistake than he did running the framing business. it was hard but thank goodness he has so much talent in construction, he is a project manager now, and he does alot of checkingto see who his subs hire!! extra work but worth it!!
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