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View Poll Results: Faced with the scenario below or one similar, do I
Close the business 28 77.78%
Hire illegal immigrants below min wage 8 22.22%
Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-04-2011, 08:59 AM
 
913 posts, read 748,213 times
Reputation: 171

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleMan View Post
So what your asking is if it's ok to break the law by hiring those who are here illegally and paying below minimum wage (also illegal) to keep your business? Is this a serious question? Hire migrant workers (here LEGALLY on work visas) for minumum wage or close your business. If you can't afford to do things legally then you can't afford to be in business. That's like me saying "I can't afford my bills, do you think it's okay for me to rob a bank?".
first off, i don't own an apple farm, this is hypothetical. second, most people break the law. kids drink underage, we generally all speed, some cheat their taxes, some build without permits, some smoke pot and some hire illegals, which you BENEFIT from! i don't have any moral issue with any of these things. i might not do them out of fear of the gestapo, but i have no issue with them morally.

robbing a bank has a victim. hiring illegals imo does not, though i'm sure you'll disagree
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Old 11-04-2011, 09:02 AM
 
913 posts, read 748,213 times
Reputation: 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Businesses fail everyday.
I have a factory. My machine for holding contaminated waste chemicals is broken and I can't afford another.
Do I :
1. Store the chemicals in 55 gal drums haul them out at night and dump the chemicals down an old mine shaft?
2. Simply dump the chemicals down the toilet?
3. Dump the chemicals in a river near the factory
4. Try to sell the business and accept that its better to obey the laws.
All criminals try to justify their crimes, make excuses and play the pity card.

here you go again, these things you mention have real victims. hiring illegals does not
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Old 11-04-2011, 09:06 AM
 
12,439 posts, read 10,291,860 times
Reputation: 3137
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammbriggs View Post
here you go again, these things you mention have real victims. hiring illegals does not
So that is your rationalization with not obeying the law. I think people who can't find a job because illegals are doing it for less money would call themselves victims.
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Old 11-04-2011, 09:11 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 19,436,354 times
Reputation: 6523
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammbriggs View Post
here you go again, these things you mention have real victims. hiring illegals does not
No victims???? None??
No victims of ID theft?
No displaced workers because illegals lowball the industry standards? easy to do when you dont have to worry about taxes and insurance.
Here you go again claiming no victims simply because you are not a victim at the moment.
You are willing to justify breaking laws to support your views.
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Old 11-04-2011, 09:13 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 19,436,354 times
Reputation: 6523
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotair2 View Post
So that is your rationalization with not obeying the law. I think people who can't find a job because illegals are doing it for less money would call themselves victims.
As would I even though I have a good job.
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Old 11-04-2011, 09:23 AM
 
Location: Jewel Lake (Sagle) Idaho
27,312 posts, read 17,555,753 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sammbriggs View Post
so here is tghe scenario:

i buy an apple farm. the machine i use to harvest apples is damaged beyond repair in a freak accident. it's an old machine and i'm unable to afford a new one or source a used one for the money the insurance company pays me out. i'm stretched as far as i can go in terms of debt. in order for me to just break even i have to limit my picking cost to $1 per bushell. a good picker can pick a between 4-6 bushells in an hour. i therefore cannot afford to pay minimum wage. there are illegals who will pick for 80cents per bushell.

do i close the business, or do i hire illegals?

Close (or sell) the business. Just like any other business that can not operate legally. Heck, what if I happen to own a mini-mart that is loosing money. Should I sell booze to kids to expand my income? How about selling drugs for extra income? Cheat the gas pumps to read that more gas is being pumped than really is? Sell food that has passed it's expiration date?

Criminal acts are still criminal acts. If you made a bad choice to buy a business that you can't run legally, you shouldn't be in business.
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Old 11-04-2011, 09:24 AM
 
913 posts, read 748,213 times
Reputation: 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotair2 View Post
So that is your rationalization with not obeying the law. I think people who can't find a job because illegals are doing it for less money would call themselves victims.

i don't think the govt should be setting the rate at which people ought to be paid. that is a market function. there are loads of jobs, which no longer exist, which are worth less than minimum wage. pump attendent are a good example. now you might say that we don't need them, and you'd be right, but many people got their start there. learnt about customer service and moved on to bigger and better things.

by your logic then we shouldn't be buying anything from china, because the people who have lost their jobs to chinese manufacturers are victims then. well be careful what you wish for!
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Old 11-04-2011, 09:26 AM
 
913 posts, read 748,213 times
Reputation: 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
No victims???? None??
No victims of ID theft?
No displaced workers because illegals lowball the industry standards? easy to do when you dont have to worry about taxes and insurance.
Here you go again claiming no victims simply because you are not a victim at the moment.
You are willing to justify breaking laws to support your views.
by your logic, imported goods from overseas create a slew of victims. i'm sure you'd be protectionist too
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Old 11-04-2011, 09:30 AM
 
913 posts, read 748,213 times
Reputation: 171
this thread shows just how deluded we are as a people. there are tens of millions of illegals in the states doing the stuff we don't want to do at the highest price we'd be prepared to pay! why? because our politicians create stupid labor laws which stand in between a willing employer and employee.
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Old 11-04-2011, 09:32 AM
 
913 posts, read 748,213 times
Reputation: 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
Close (or sell) the business. Just like any other business that can not operate legally. Heck, what if I happen to own a mini-mart that is loosing money. Should I sell booze to kids to expand my income? How about selling drugs for extra income? Cheat the gas pumps to read that more gas is being pumped than really is? Sell food that has passed it's expiration date?

Criminal acts are still criminal acts. If you made a bad choice to buy a business that you can't run legally, you shouldn't be in business.
got kids to feed, might battle to find employment and can't sell the business. what then?
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