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View Poll Results: Faced with the scenario below or one similar, do I
Close the business 28 77.78%
Hire illegal immigrants below min wage 8 22.22%
Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-04-2011, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Central Valley, CA
2,007 posts, read 1,322,397 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sammbriggs View Post
because slavery is involuntary. if i can only afford to pay $6 an hour, and i can find people willing to work for that, that is between me and those people
Federal law says otherwise. If you choose to run a business in this country, you are regulated and must follow the law. If the laws bother you that much, move to another country and start a business there, where's it's legal to pay someone a pathetic wage.
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Old 11-04-2011, 12:06 PM
 
913 posts, read 392,821 times
Reputation: 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
Both stealing others property, and encouraging criminal activity (and breaking the law in the course of doing so) are both legal and moral issues. If you want to encourage criminal aliens to break our laws, and wish to pay them under minimum wage, you are taking unfair advantage of them. Why not just round up children of the poor and have them work for you for a buck an hour? Or heck, just make slavery legal again. All are morally repugnant.
smoking pot is illegal too. drinking alcohol was, at a sad point in our history, also illegal. it doesn't make smoking pot immoral or drinking wine immoral either. if it does, go tell that to jesus. jim crow laws made a whole lot of stuff illegal too. i'm guessing you think they were morally just.

contrary to your understanding of the world, our min wage laws have done immense damage to the people it was aimed at helping. it effectively drove those whose labor was worth less than min wage, into the unemployment line.

in my opinion there are loads of laws, regardless of their stated intention, which are morally repugnant. min wages are one of those
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Old 11-04-2011, 12:09 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
5,687 posts, read 2,299,946 times
Reputation: 3460
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammbriggs View Post
got kids to feed, might battle to find employment and can't sell the business. what then?
Then, get yourself, your wife, and your kids out there picking apples!
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Old 11-04-2011, 12:12 PM
 
Location: San Diego
17,456 posts, read 14,117,508 times
Reputation: 6209
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammbriggs View Post
i could say the same thing about your post! incredibly short sighted for you to just suggest closing something which employs people, pays taxes and provides a product made here.

by your logic it would be better if i closed down, went on welfare, the illegals went to work for the millions of employers who would hire them, and we ended up buying our apples from brazil!

well thought out there!
Businesses go down all the time. Especially after market changes or automation. Your widget business is not special. If you can't turn a profit without breaking a multitude of laws it deserves to fail.

Without min wages laws there would be owners in real life just like you and your unscrupulous greedy fake business willing to exploit people in some bidding war to the bottom to see who would work for the least out of desperation.
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Old 11-04-2011, 12:18 PM
 
913 posts, read 392,821 times
Reputation: 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebelt1234 View Post
I totally agree. Hiring illegal aliens is unfair not just to the American, but to illegal taking the job. The illegal taking the job is not being paid a fair wage for the work they are doing. You want to pay them 80 cents an hour. Okay, why not just bring back slavery or concentration camps. Round up all welfare recipients and put them in camps and let them work for 80 cents an hour. Then, you get super cheap CRAP.
what is a fair wage. if all i can afford is $5 an hour and they have no alternative, i battle to see what the problem is especially if i can't afford to pay more and the market has determined that the product of their labor is only worth x amount

this asinine relation to slavery is getting irritating. do you understand what slavery is? it's forced labor, even if modern definitions have arisen, i object to forced labor. someone agreeing to work for a low wage does not involve force.

i'm also enjoying the double standard. most of the stuff you buy, the components in your cars, the clothes on your back, your kids toys and your sneakers are produced by what you would define as "slave" labor. let me guess, nimby

you need to understand how those people you define as slaves have seen a rise in their std of living
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Old 11-04-2011, 12:24 PM
 
913 posts, read 392,821 times
Reputation: 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by KickAssArmyChick View Post
It is unfair because it is illegal.

I love this "me,me,me" attitude a lot of Americans have nowadays. Especially the ones who hire cheap illegal labor. Nevermind that illegal aliens cost billions of dollars a year.. Free schools, using the ER as a doctor's office and never paying their bills, overcrowding prisons, collecting welfare on behalf of their US Born children.

So it is okay for all taxpayers to foot those bills just so you can hire a handful and save some $.

Greedy doesn't even begin to describe it.

you are right, forcing an employer to pay more than he can afford or go out of business is a very me, me, me atitude.

it was also illegal for blacks to use the same toilet as you at some point. i take it that you would've arrested them for breaking that law. how about people drinking a shot of whisky during prohibition? just law?
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Old 11-04-2011, 12:25 PM
 
913 posts, read 392,821 times
Reputation: 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox Terrier View Post
Then, get yourself, your wife, and your kids out there picking apples!

you promoting child labor now?
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Old 11-04-2011, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Apple Valley Calif
7,414 posts, read 12,025,581 times
Reputation: 5165
Quote:
Originally Posted by KickAssArmyChick View Post
If you cannot run a business and hire legal workers, maybe you shouldn't even have a business to begin with.
That is probably true, but that wasn't the question that was posed..!
The business already existed and unexpected financial problems threaten to BK the owner.
With obama in office, that scenario is being played out on a daily basis..!
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Old 11-04-2011, 12:30 PM
 
913 posts, read 392,821 times
Reputation: 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
Without min wages laws there would be owners in real life just like you and your unscrupulous greedy fake business willing to exploit people in some bidding war to the bottom to see who would work for the least out of desperation.
you are right, but everyone would be employed and employers looking to find quality employees would be forcedin a bidding war to the top to pay for them.

also, in my world it would be a lot easier to show the boss the middle finger and start my own business!

our overregulated society has made this option very difficult to exercise
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Old 11-04-2011, 12:37 PM
 
Location: San Diego
17,456 posts, read 14,117,508 times
Reputation: 6209
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammbriggs View Post
you are right, but everyone would be employed and employers looking to find quality employees would be forcedin a bidding war to the top to pay for them.

also, in my world it would be a lot easier to show the boss the middle finger and start my own business!

our overregulated society has made this option very difficult to exercise
You may call making .50 cents an hour "employed" but no one can live off of that. It's one step above forcing them to work for nothing, aka slave labor.
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