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Old 11-18-2011, 04:43 PM
 
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Good read.

The UnConstitutionality of Citizenship by Birth to Non-Americans - The 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution - Fourteenth Amendment - anchor babies and birthright citizenship - interpretations and misinterpretations - US Constitution
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Old 11-18-2011, 05:49 PM
 
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This again?

Sorry, but birthright citizenship is quite constitutional, and some of the people who debated the clause at the time argued that it was already constitutional even before the 14th Amendment.

What citizenship does not permit is to confer citizenship to the children of foreign diplomats or foreigners who have no foreseeable ties to the United States.

The 'anchor babies' that everyone is talking about in this case, however, most certainly are U.S. citizens, especially if the parents wish for them to be so. Moreover, illegal aliens, though they are technically in violation of the law, are subject to the jurisdiction of the United States. If they weren't, then they would be immune from deportation proceedings.
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Old 11-18-2011, 06:24 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,711,425 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chickenfriedbananas View Post
This again?

Sorry, but birthright citizenship is quite constitutional, and some of the people who debated the clause at the time argued that it was already constitutional even before the 14th Amendment.

What citizenship does not permit is to confer citizenship to the children of foreign diplomats or foreigners who have no foreseeable ties to the United States.

The 'anchor babies' that everyone is talking about in this case, however, most certainly are U.S. citizens, especially if the parents wish for them to be so. Moreover, illegal aliens, though they are technically in violation of the law, are subject to the jurisdiction of the United States. If they weren't, then they would be immune from deportation proceedings.
Gray in WKA clearly states:
Quote:
The foregoing considerations and authorities irresistibly lead us to these conclusions: the Fourteenth Amendment affirms the ancient and fundamental rule of citizenship by birth within the territory, in the allegiance and under the protection of the country, including all children here born of resident aliens, with the exceptions or qualifications (as old as the rule itself) of children of foreign sovereigns or their ministers, or born on foreign public ships, or of enemies within and during a hostile occupation of part of our territory, and with the single additional exception of children of members of the Indian tribes owing direct allegiance to their several tribes.
Looks as though Gray says children born of foreign sovereigns are not born to/with the allegiance needed to be citizens by birth.

BRC is only recognized due to the Progressive change (in the definition) instituted to the DoS FAM which was re-defined in 2009 by the Obama Admin and will be changed back once a consenualist is back in office.

Last edited by Liquid Reigns; 11-18-2011 at 06:40 PM..
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Old 11-18-2011, 07:20 PM
 
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The phrase thereof meant not oweing any alleigance.
illegals should not be considered Americans, as the framers intended not giving any citizenship to just anybody.
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Old 11-18-2011, 09:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
Gray in WKA clearly states: Looks as though Gray says children born of foreign sovereigns are not born to/with the allegiance needed to be citizens by birth.

BRC is only recognized due to the Progressive change (in the definition) instituted to the DoS FAM which was re-defined in 2009 by the Obama Admin and will be changed back once a consenualist is back in office.
Absolutely, demonstrably false. I would cut and paste a bunch of links but it would be a waste of my time, and I already know that the law is on my side of the argument, not yours...so consequently, I can't really give a flying f*ck at this point.

But it makes me happy to know that you every time an anchor baby gets U.S. citizenship on a daily basis.
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Old 11-18-2011, 09:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Madd love View Post
The phrase thereof meant not oweing any alleigance.
illegals should not be considered Americans, as the framers intended not giving any citizenship to just anybody.
The Framers didn't even have the notion of 'illegal immigration'. Their main concern would have been keeping Indians out and making sure there were no loyalists to the Crown. Had their been Mexicans willing to work in their fields for pennies on the dollar, they probably would have gladly accepted, legal or not. This is especially likely given the institution of indentured servitude and slavery.

You have absolutely no lunar clue about what you're talking about here. Just be honorable and admit as much.
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Old 11-18-2011, 10:06 PM
 
327 posts, read 262,108 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chickenfriedbananas View Post
The Framers didn't even have the notion of 'illegal immigration'. Their main concern would have been keeping Indians out and making sure there were no loyalists to the Crown. Had their been Mexicans willing to work in their fields for pennies on the dollar, they probably would have gladly accepted, legal or not. This is especially likely given the institution of indentured servitude and slavery.

You have absolutely no lunar clue about what you're talking about here. Just be honorable and admit as much.
I don't think you know what your talking about.

The U.S always had an immigration policy to become a citizem.
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Old 11-19-2011, 07:41 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madd love View Post
I don't think you know what your talking about.

The U.S always had an immigration policy to become a citizem.
Go on then, and cite me some specifics. Tell me what you know.
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Old 11-19-2011, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 69,881,813 times
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The way our current rules work is if you are born in America then you are a US citizen.

Other countries that have had this problem have changed their laws where at least one parent must be a citizen of that nation in order for the child to be a citizen. I don't understand why we don't make that same change.
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Old 11-19-2011, 08:24 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
The way our current rules work is if you are born in America then you are a US citizen.

Other countries that have had this problem have changed their laws where at least one parent must be a citizen of that nation in order for the child to be a citizen. I don't understand why we don't make that same change.
For the record, I don't have a problem changing the rule. A lot has changed since the 14th Amendment was authored.

But the law is the law, and it's clear. People who are born in the U.S. are citizens, if their parents want them to be.
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