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Just about all cities and towns feel poorer. We're in a recession. If illegals solved an economic problem, California wouldn't be the mess it is. Nor of course would countries like Mexico be in such bad shape, although Mexico is doing a lot better with them gone it seems.
Note, that the so-called immigrants weren't replaced by "lazy" citizens. Rather, other immigrants.
But, I thought all "immigrants" are assets to this country, want to assimilate, and yearn to become members of our communities. What a shocking revelation that some are actually here only to get what they want, and then move on. Please, say it ain't so.
It's an interesting article. I read it yesterday, in fact.
I still think that we have a duty to enforce immigration laws, but it goes to show that people who foam at the mouth over illegal immigration ignore the fact that there are also consequences for enforcing the law. The unwritten rule for years was to enforce the law on an as-needed basis, which probably worked out just fine. As long as businesses weren't abusing people and as long as they weren't hiring illegals at the expense of legitimate workers, probably all was well.
I'm not defending illegal immigration, but there are consequences for enforcing those laws. I don't know if Americans have thought about what would happen to the price of domestic goods and services without illegal labor. And then they also end up creating their own communities and even their own economies. I think expanding a guest worker program would be the ideal way to deal with this situation.
One reason immigrant turnover in the town is higher than before the 2008 raid may be that legal immigrants have more employment options than the mostly undocumented Guatemalans and Mexicans who used to work at the meatpacking plant. They (illegal immigrants) are also less vulnerable to abuse.
"The only good thing I see about this raid is at least it brought to the front page that our food is cheap in part because (illegal) immigrants are exploited and are victimized," said Sonia Parras-Konrad, a Des Moines immigration lawyer who represented, pro bono, dozens of the Postville detainees. Undocumented people are often afraid to report labor abuses and crimes for fear of being deported, she says.
Parras-Konrad and Brackett, the Lutheran pastor, both told Yahoo News that the undocumented population is on the rise in the town and speculated that the plant may be hiring illegal immigrants again.
So 2 immigrants, one which overstayed her visa think Postville is, as one puts it, a fairy tale, while the other came here for economic gain. The only reality is by the lawyer, but even she uses hyperbole claiming that the cost of food was cheap due to illegals working there, except it was a Kosher plant prior, with very little effect on most of the general public.
This article is attempting to make a mountain out of a grain of sand.
It's an interesting article. I read it yesterday, in fact.
I still think that we have a duty to enforce immigration laws, but it goes to show that people who foam at the mouth over illegal immigration ignore the fact that there are also consequences for enforcing the law. The unwritten rule for years was to enforce the law on an as-needed basis, which probably worked out just fine. As long as businesses weren't abusing people and as long as they weren't hiring illegals at the expense of legitimate workers, probably all was well.
I'm not defending illegal immigration, but there are consequences for enforcing those laws. I don't know if Americans have thought about what would happen to the price of domestic goods and services without illegal labor. And then they also end up creating their own communities and even their own economies. I think expanding a guest worker program would be the ideal way to deal with this situation.
I was unable to read the article. Did it indicate the new workers are legal immigrants? If not, how is it a consequence of enforcement? Regardless, there are also consequences when our laws are not enforced, as evidenced by our current level of massive illegal immigration; astronomical budget deficits, compounded by offering tax-funded benefits to illegal aliens; and a general state of lawlessness. This is detrimental and unsustainable.
As for the price of goods and services, illegal labor does not appreciably reduce our costs. The only people who benefit from said labor are the employers, while taxpayers are left holding the bag for the support of their illegal workforce. I don't know about you, but in the DC area, the price of everything has risen during the past several years, notwithstanding a huge illegal presence.
Quote:
You might assume that the plentiful supply of low-wage illegal workers would translate into significantly lower prices for the goods and services they produce. In fact, their impact on consumer prices — call it the "illegal-worker discount" — is surprisingly small.
The underlying reason, economists say, is that for most goods the labor — whether legal or illegal, native- or foreign-born — represents only a sliver of the retail price.
Illegals drive up the costs of many items. They overcrowd housing by cramming themselves into housing thus straining local infrastructure and raising taxes as well as pushing up property taxes which have to rise to support them. They also drive up driving costs because they break the law by driving without insurance and then pass the costs onto the consumer. Medical costs also go up because illegals are immoral people who have no compunction about using our health services without paying for them even though most are Mexicans and Mexicans have health care at low cost in their own country.
In short they are a burden on the middle class. They drive up housing, insurance and health care costs as well as many other costs. Any minor savings from lettuce is more than offset by huge burdens as a result of dealing with their enormous educational and skill deficiencies.
If Postville was unable to function without their labor, Postville has bigger problems than illegals.
I was unable to read the article. Did it indicate the new workers are legal immigrants? If not, how is it a consequence of enforcement?
I think it said that, yes, most of the ones who are there now are legal immigrants, but that an increasingly high number are suspected to be illegal. Even though the plant uses e-verify, one of the people interviewed said he suspects that workers are finding ways around the system. That's about all I remember from the article. I think it goes to show that people are going to try to beat the system and that all the fence-building in the world isn't going to stop illegal immigrants. Might slow it down, but if people are desperate to get into the U.S., they're going to do it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar
Regardless, there are also consequences when our laws are not enforced, as evidenced by our current level of massive illegal immigration; astronomical budget deficits, compounded by offering tax-funded benefits to illegal aliens; and a general state of lawlessness. This is detrimental and unsustainable.
Our astronomical budget deficits (on the federal level) have very little to do with illegal immigration. I have yet to see any data that suggests the budget crisis has anything to do with illegal immigration, which is actually on a 4-year decline in case anyone's wondering.
I *do* think illegal immigrants have a potentially adverse impact at a more local level. I could see how some border towns and communities in border states might struggle to handle the flow of illegal immigrants. They might crowd schools and hospitals and overuse some public resources -- that I think is a legitimate concern. But I don't think there is any proof that they are taking jobs away from ordinary working folk in America, and there's certainly no proof that they're hurting the American economy as a whole. The American economy has been damaged by Wall Street executives and corrupt Beltway politicians, not by Pedro and Juanita running across the border.
Quote:
As for the price of goods and services, illegal labor does not appreciably reduce our costs. The only people who benefit from said labor are the employers, while taxpayers are left holding the bag for the support of their illegal workforce. I don't know about you, but in the DC area, the price of everything has risen during the past several years, notwithstanding a huge illegal presence.
The price of everything is increasing in spite of illegal labor. That's because energy and commodity costs are rising, and when those costs rise, everything else rises with it. If it weren't for illegal labor it's possible that some American-made goods would be cheaper.
I'm not saying that illegal labor makes everything cheaper in America - not so much. I think it makes some American-made goods more price-competitive. For instance, fruit farmers in California can hire guest workers and throw in some illegal labor. That would keep costs down of goods produced and sold here in America. That would also mean Americans would be more likely to buy American fruit, as opposed to fruit grown south of the border. That would mean that American farmers would be more likely to keep their farms. Also, if prices rise in the U.S. then prices will rise elsewhere, so even Mexican fruit would be more expensive if American prices rose because of a lack of quality and cheap labor.
None of this is really a defense of illegal immigration. It needs to be controlled. I just don't think illegal immigration is worth quite the attention it's getting. It's a distraction for the most part. To people living along the border, yes, it's an issue, but not the only issue. To everyone else, probably not so much.
I think it said that, yes, most of the ones who are there now are legal immigrants, but that an increasingly high number are suspected to be illegal. Even though the plant uses e-verify, one of the people interviewed said he suspects that workers are finding ways around the system. That's about all I remember from the article. I think it goes to show that people are going to try to beat the system and that all the fence-building in the world isn't going to stop illegal immigrants. Might slow it down, but if people are desperate to get into the U.S., they're going to do it.
Our astronomical budget deficits (on the federal level) have very little to do with illegal immigration. I have yet to see any data that suggests the budget crisis has anything to do with illegal immigration, which is actually on a 4-year decline in case anyone's wondering.
I *do* think illegal immigrants have a potentially adverse impact at a more local level. I could see how some border towns and communities in border states might struggle to handle the flow of illegal immigrants. They might crowd schools and hospitals and overuse some public resources -- that I think is a legitimate concern. But I don't think there is any proof that they are taking jobs away from ordinary working folk in America, and there's certainly no proof that they're hurting the American economy as a whole. The American economy has been damaged by Wall Street executives and corrupt Beltway politicians, not by Pedro and Juanita running across the border.
The price of everything is increasing in spite of illegal labor. That's because energy and commodity costs are rising, and when those costs rise, everything else rises with it. If it weren't for illegal labor it's possible that some American-made goods would be cheaper.
I'm not saying that illegal labor makes everything cheaper in America - not so much. I think it makes some American-made goods more price-competitive. For instance, fruit farmers in California can hire guest workers and throw in some illegal labor. That would keep costs down of goods produced and sold here in America. That would also mean Americans would be more likely to buy American fruit, as opposed to fruit grown south of the border. That would mean that American farmers would be more likely to keep their farms. Also, if prices rise in the U.S. then prices will rise elsewhere, so even Mexican fruit would be more expensive if American prices rose because of a lack of quality and cheap labor.
None of this is really a defense of illegal immigration. It needs to be controlled. I just don't think illegal immigration is worth quite the attention it's getting. It's a distraction for the most part. To people living along the border, yes, it's an issue, but not the only issue. To everyone else, probably not so much.
Our schools down here are getting hammered by illegal immigration. As far as jobs? There are certain sectors taken over by illegals that have ruined the industry as far as a US Citizen being able to work in that field and collect a fair wage. Pretty much any labor type job.
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