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Old 12-29-2011, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,766,418 times
Reputation: 4539

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Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
Sure has a 50% error rate or so and is totally useless against simple substitution strategies. So we prevent the dumber 20% getting jobs. They work off the books.
50% error rate? Do you have a source for that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
Paid for how? Triple or Quadruple the staff? Paid for how? By who? Note that employers often fight back. So this is expensive stuff. Many lawyers going to court.
It could be paid for by fine money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
I have no problem with arrested. But note that the ICE may not agree that an arrest without a significant conviction justifies deportation. Family, local ties, kids all gets into the act.
I'm aware of this. This is a problem that should be corrected. Every time an illegal is caught, it should lead to deportation. Period. No exceptions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
In general illegals get no welfare. The American citizen children of illegals sometimes do get it. You suggest american kids should not get it?
Welfare should only be issued to adults. Even if the adult is the parent of an American citizen child, he/she should not be eligible if he/she is an illegal alien. We need to take away incentives for illegal immigration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
Are you really of the opinion that we should turn down perhaps some of our best and brightest because their parents violated a law or regulation.
Yes. We need to take away all the incentives for illegal immigration, as I said earlier. Futhermore, and more importantly, they cannot use their degrees to get jobs in the US, contribute to the economy, and become taxpayers. Why should taxpayers spend money on educating them when they will not be able to get anything in return?
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Old 12-29-2011, 09:04 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,149,569 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
50% error rate? Do you have a source for that?



It could be paid for by fine money.



I'm aware of this. This is a problem that should be corrected. Every time an illegal is caught, it should lead to deportation. Period. No exceptions.



Welfare should only be issued to adults. Even if the adult is the parent of an American citizen child, he/she should not be eligible if he/she is an illegal alien. We need to take away incentives for illegal immigration.



Yes. We need to take away all the incentives for illegal immigration, as I said earlier. Futhermore, and more importantly, they cannot use their degrees to get jobs in the US, contribute to the economy, and become taxpayers. Why should taxpayers spend money on educating them when they will not be able to get anything in return?
I totally agree with all of your points. We have enough of our own best and brightest trying to get seats and finances to go to college and many of them still can't find a suitable job after they graducate. We sure don't need illegals sucking up those finances, taking seats in our colleges and legalizing them so they can compete for American jobs after graduation.

Let these illegals be the best and brightest in their own countries. Their countries need them to expand their middle class and there are colleges and universities in their own countries.
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Old 12-29-2011, 10:18 AM
 
387 posts, read 270,741 times
Reputation: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
50% error rate? Do you have a source for that?
That is a popular press number. For a more technical report on the problems with the system see..

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d11146.pdf


Quote:
It could be paid for by fine money.
Have to win and they often will not.



Quote:
I'm aware of this. This is a problem that should be corrected. Every time an illegal is caught, it should lead to deportation. Period. No exceptions.
Resources don't exist. The feds have to sort. Growing the gov in a large way is not very popular right now.


Quote:
Welfare should only be issued to adults. Even if the adult is the parent of an American citizen child, he/she should not be eligible if he/she is an illegal alien. We need to take away incentives for illegal immigration.



Yes. We need to take away all the incentives for illegal immigration, as I said earlier. Futhermore, and more importantly, they cannot use their degrees to get jobs in the US, contribute to the economy, and become taxpayers. Why should taxpayers spend money on educating them when they will not be able to get anything in return?
Sure they will. As the court observed in Phyler history suggests strongly that the vast majority of illegal children will eventually end up legal. And you really want them because they are exactly the kind of immigrants we want. Educated, English speaking and well accultured.
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Old 12-29-2011, 01:52 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,711,508 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
That is a popular press number. For a more technical report on the problems with the system see..

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d11146.pdf

Have to win and they often will not.

Resources don't exist. The feds have to sort. Growing the gov in a large way is not very popular right now.

Sure they will. As the court observed in Phyler history suggests strongly that the vast majority of illegal children will eventually end up legal. And you really want them because they are exactly the kind of immigrants we want. Educated, English speaking and well accultured.
There hasn't been any significant deportation in the last 50 years for us to have any statistics on how many children raised back in their parents country will return.

You don't have them because they don't exist. But yes, I'm sure the greed of some of these people will have them on the first bus headed to the USA, happy to never see their beloved parents again.
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Old 12-29-2011, 01:59 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,711,508 times
Reputation: 22158
It's wrong to assume that none of these children could ever grow to love their own country more than the easy money and materialistic things they have in the USA.

They pretend to have some patriotism -- they are proud to wave their foreign flags, quick to chant "viva mejico" at every opportunity. They join the La Raza clubs on campus and pretend to care about their ethnic-racial group. Who is to say that they couldn't become sincere and actually love their homeland and care about their people when they are back home with them?

I'm sure many will ditch "la patria" as quickly as their own parents did -- because the love of American dollars and food stamps is All-Powerful, but some may actually find some true pride and love of their country and want to stay.

The fact is -- not every Mexican and Central American has abandoned his or her homeland.
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Old 12-29-2011, 02:01 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,415,357 times
Reputation: 47455
it is a grim picture. we have an utterly porous border with a country intent on immigrating here.
the exception is san ysidro 12 miles wide, the fence works great, but made it a living hell for our neighbors when the problem moved out of CA to the east.
the crackup is now that the financial squeeze in not all on us, the lefty cities here expounded how much we love illegals. vote pandering. i need a shower.
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Old 12-29-2011, 02:46 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,711,508 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
it is a grim picture. we have an utterly porous border with a country intent on immigrating here.
the exception is san ysidro 12 miles wide, the fence works great, but made it a living hell for our neighbors when the problem moved out of CA to the east.
the crackup is now that the financial squeeze in not all on us, the lefty cities here expounded how much we love illegals. vote pandering. i need a shower.
Births to foreign-born mothers - Data Across States - KIDS COUNT Data Center

From 2008 - but in California almost half of the births are to foreign women. The foreigners already outnumber Americans in many parts of the country and it's getting much worse. A huge portion of these foreign born women giving birth are here illegally, and doing so on the taxpayers' dime.

As long as the foreign women know they are never expected to pay a hospital bill and are richly rewarded with food stamps, WIC, government housing, this will be a problem.
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Old 12-29-2011, 03:00 PM
 
387 posts, read 270,741 times
Reputation: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Births to foreign-born mothers - Data Across States - KIDS COUNT Data Center

From 2008 - but in California almost half of the births are to foreign women. The foreigners already outnumber Americans in many parts of the country and it's getting much worse. A huge portion of these foreign born women giving birth are here illegally, and doing so on the taxpayers' dime.

As long as the foreign women know they are never expected to pay a hospital bill and are richly rewarded with food stamps, WIC, government housing, this will be a problem.
Does "foreign women" equate to "illegal aliens"? Now if you have a cite for the children born to illegal alien women it might have validity here.
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Old 12-29-2011, 03:07 PM
 
387 posts, read 270,741 times
Reputation: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
It's wrong to assume that none of these children could ever grow to love their own country more than the easy money and materialistic things they have in the USA.

They pretend to have some patriotism -- they are proud to wave their foreign flags, quick to chant "viva mejico" at every opportunity. They join the La Raza clubs on campus and pretend to care about their ethnic-racial group. Who is to say that they couldn't become sincere and actually love their homeland and care about their people when they are back home with them?

I'm sure many will ditch "la patria" as quickly as their own parents did -- because the love of American dollars and food stamps is All-Powerful, but some may actually find some true pride and love of their country and want to stay.

The fact is -- not every Mexican and Central American has abandoned his or her homeland.
The primary difference these DREAMIES will find is pretty much all financial. They are acclimatized to the US and will likely never lose their attraction to it.

It seems to me they are loyal to their local community and family and friends. Fondness for Mexico for many is a formality. They have spent little time there so how would they know?
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Old 12-29-2011, 03:15 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,149,569 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Births to foreign-born mothers - Data Across States - KIDS COUNT Data Center

From 2008 - but in California almost half of the births are to foreign women. The foreigners already outnumber Americans in many parts of the country and it's getting much worse. A huge portion of these foreign born women giving birth are here illegally, and doing so on the taxpayers' dime.

As long as the foreign women know they are never expected to pay a hospital bill and are richly rewarded with food stamps, WIC, government housing, this will be a problem.
Yes, it is scary to think that foreingers many of whom are here illegally might some day outnumber the native born population via birthrates. What the heck is our government thinking not getting a handle on this problem and not pushing to change birthright citizenship? We can't afford to keep providing free birthings, healthcare and all other kinds of welfare type programs to them and their offspring.
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