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Old 12-31-2011, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,765 posts, read 12,744,983 times
Reputation: 5440

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
THAT is an un-nuanced position!


Imagine that you went to 6 years of college to get your master's degree. The expense, the time, the committment.


Five years after you get your degree, your college starts handing out degrees for free, and only after one year of classes.

You're not going to be against that practice? Not the least bit resentful? But hey, you got yours, right, so you wouldn't give a crap about the other people getting the free, easy degrees, right?

By the way: It's offensive to Latinos to suggest that they automatically be aligned with "other Latinos" simply because they share a common ancestral conqueror and language. I mean, what kind of tribalism is that, anyway?
No, why would I be against it? I believe education is one of the most important things our nation can invest in. Having others get it for free doesn't take away my own accomplishment. And those people getting it paid for still have to put in the hard work to go to class, learn, and actually earn the degree. You can't hand out degrees for free, only the chance to earn one.

Tribalism? No. Just a recognition of a trait most people share, regardless of race or circumstance.

 
Old 12-31-2011, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,765 posts, read 12,744,983 times
Reputation: 5440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Falconman View Post
They afraid they may take THEIR friggin jobs, no doubt
If they are competing to be a dishwater at Applebee's, I suspect larger issues.
 
Old 12-31-2011, 01:52 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,765 posts, read 12,744,983 times
Reputation: 5440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
I have no problem with Mexicans who are here legally and those who are trying to make Mexico a better place. Way too many of Mexico's citizens are bad news, but it's Mexico's business to deal with them, not us.
Can you elaborate on why "way too many" Mexicans are bad news?

This should be good.
 
Old 12-31-2011, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,765 posts, read 12,744,983 times
Reputation: 5440
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
The vast majority of posters in this section are fairly consistent in attacking illegal vs. legal immigrants. Some take great pains to make distinctions, even while others on the other side of the debate consistently seek to conflate or confuse the term "immigrants" with "illegal immigrants."
It takes a great man to defend semantical prejudice.
 
Old 12-31-2011, 01:57 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,763,873 times
Reputation: 4539
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
It takes a great man to defend semantical prejudice.
Semantics? LOL.

Let's say one person comes to my house with my permission and someone else comes in through an unlocked door without permission. Do they both have an equal right to be in my house?
 
Old 12-31-2011, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,010,077 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Japan was able to rebuild only because of American assistance. Same with Germany. That's why they still, to this day, have almost zero national defense and are almost completely reliable on foreign protection...

...Honestly, folks, it's not like history is a secret.
This was brought home for me to hear of a German warship having to be "allowed" to enter into the Persian Gulf by NATO forces, over 35 years after WWII...

Shows how much we trusted even a reunified Germany at that point...
 
Old 12-31-2011, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,763,873 times
Reputation: 4539
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Eh, I think it wouldn't be a bad idea to put a few processing centers on the border, like we had at the turn of the last century in NYC for European immigrants. Let's get them processed, check for criminal backgrounds, etc and let them live the American Dream. This would get people on the books when coming in and help strengthen border security. Of course I would also require basic citizenship requirements be met such as learning English (I don't care if they actually use it so long as they know it), holding employment, not committing any crimes (and I mean serious ones, not running a stop sign), and passing a civics test or two.
Do you think this should apply even when there aren't enough jobs to go around for the people already here?
 
Old 12-31-2011, 02:01 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,010,077 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
Semantics? LOL.

Let's say one person comes to my house with my permission and someone else comes in through an unlocked door without permission. Do they both have an equal right to be in my house?
We're back to the stupid "house" analogies again?...
 
Old 12-31-2011, 02:15 PM
 
17,279 posts, read 24,961,305 times
Reputation: 8519
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
No, why would I be against it? I believe education is one of the most important things our nation can invest in. Having others get it for free doesn't take away my own accomplishment.
Yes, it does. It cheapens the value of your degree, and your accomplishment. It also means you were charged more, and were held to stricter standards that will NOT be acknowledged in the marketplace.

After all, I suppose you'd be OK if McDonalds charged you $10 for a Big Mac, and the next guy in line was only charged $1?


Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81
And those people getting it paid for still have to put in the hard work to go to class, learn, and actually earn the degree. You can't hand out degrees for free, only the chance to earn one.
No. Illegal immigrants are gaining the benefits of immigration WITHOUT going through the process that is in place to ensure that only those who are needed or valuable get through.

Immigration laws are supposed to prevent welfare cases from streaming across the border. It's supposed to ensure we don't have criminals coming from other countries to the United States. It's supposed to ensure that we are not flooded with competition for jobs.

Illegal immigrants thwart the process. They cheapen it, they subvert it, and they consequently frustrate the purposes of having laws in the first place.

LEGAL immigrants put their dues in. They met the criteria. Anything else, based on anything other than objective analysis of what is good for AMERICA (and not, what is good for prospective IMMIGRANTS) is absurd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81
Tribalism? No. Just a recognition of a trait most people share, regardless of race or circumstance.
The topic of the thread is "Legal Latinos against Illegal Immigration."

Your response: "Some got theirs, so screw everyone else."

What "recognition of a trait most people share" was that comment referring to if not Latino solidarity? The desire to immigrate in general?

If I have the desire to make the baseball team, I have to try out, practice, get a health exam, etc. Imagine if people could just "show up" one day and get on the team just because they happen to be standing around. What's the incentive for anyone in the future to try out? What's the chances we will have "the best" baseball team if we let any shlub off the street come in?
 
Old 12-31-2011, 02:17 PM
 
17,279 posts, read 24,961,305 times
Reputation: 8519
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
We're back to the stupid "house" analogies again?...
The house analogies are only stupid because they cause cognitive dissonance among those sympathetic to illegal immigration.
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