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Old 01-03-2012, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,795 posts, read 12,799,142 times
Reputation: 5467

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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
All you have to do is consider our unemployment rate is double theirs -- at least when it comes to the country of the bulk of the illegals.

It's not sustainable to keep millions of Americans on government handouts and indefinitely extend unemployment and keep bringing in millions of foreigners to do the work.

They have their country, we have ours. If there is something they don't like about their country, they can work for reforms, but we can't provide all the jobs for the entire world and allow Americans to never work again.

And it might be true that many Americans have become too lazy to ever work, have no desire but to live off government handouts but that is not the answer. Americans have to work.
The way the two countries measure unemployment is very different. For example, Mexico counts all self-employment, which is very common in Mexico. Basically, let's say you live in an apartment building with a sidewalk. You can set up a fruit stand outside your front door and the government will count you as employed. That would never be counted in the US. It's very easy to start a business, any business, in Mexico, but it is very difficult to make enough money at it to be successful beyond merely surviving.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
I get tired of foreigners who voluntarily break our laws being held up as role models. They're nothing of the sort. There's nothing positive about someone who breaks into another country without permission, forges documents to take a job and then refuses to leave.

Illegals are simply arrogant creeps who believe themselves about American laws. They should not be rewarded for that behavior.
I suspect you've never gotten to know a single illegal immigrant in your life, though no doubt you will say otherwise and that they're all terrible people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegas Joe View Post
This issue above others has always torn me. On one hand I am a person that believes in the rule of law and I think laws should be enforced. Those that are not should be taken off the books. So it really makes me mad when people sneak into the country illegally. I have always been of the opinion that such people should be caught and deported and the people who hire them sent to jail or subjected to asset forfeiture or both. But on the other hand, I see these people as a real positive for our country. They get up and work hard everyday. They do jobs that Americans would not touch for any wage. And frankly they work harder and have better character than many people who were born here and are lazy bums or criminals. I honestly think we need to help these people in some way. I just don't know how to help them without encouraging more of them to sneak in. We need some kind of amnesty so they can stay but an amnesty that will not encourage more illegal entry.
You got just one thing wrong: They aren't doing jobs Americans won't do, only the jobs the posters on this forum won't do or aren't qualified for but complain about it anyway.

Last edited by Yac; 01-04-2012 at 03:25 AM.. Reason: 3 posts in a row merged
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Old 01-03-2012, 11:09 AM
 
23,851 posts, read 19,201,165 times
Reputation: 9378
I'm not torn on it at all. Illegal immigration is....illegal....and the law breakers are criminals. Hiring illegal immigrants is.......illegal....and the law breakers are criminals. The only "helping" that needs to be done is helping Customs and Border Protection/ICE do their jobs through increased funding and a robust deportation programs. Further, shut down employer offenders and send them to prison. Acquiescing to criminals can only be a bad thing for America, especially considering that billions of dollars are wire transferred back to Mexico and other countries every year and our own natural, manmade, and social resources are being depleted by those who have no allegiance to America!

Wake up!
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Old 01-03-2012, 11:53 AM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,391,246 times
Reputation: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
I suspect you've never gotten to know a single illegal immigrant in your life, though no doubt you will say otherwise and that they're all terrible people.
Oh no. I'm sure that people who break our immigration laws, don't speak English even after living here for decades, drive on the roads without a license or insurance, walk away from medical bills, forge documents, work off the books and make demands on our school systems are just fabulous people.



I love how illegal defenders are always ready to make nasty statement about Americans who dare demand enforcement of our laws but get highly irked if you dare imply the slightest unflattering thing about illegals in any way.

Please answer the OP. Why should we allow millions of law breakers to be rewarded for their lawbreaking with the right to skip the immigration lines and access the American welfare system? So some employers can save a few bucks? So people who come from the world's 12th largest economy can have even more stuff at American taxpayer expense?

Do tell.
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Old 01-03-2012, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Oxygen Ln. AZ
9,321 posts, read 16,171,362 times
Reputation: 5685
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
Oh no. I'm sure that people who break our immigration laws, don't speak English even after living here for decades, drive on the roads without a license or insurance, walk away from medical bills, forge documents, work off the books and make demands on our school systems are just fabulous people.



I love how illegal defenders are always ready to make nasty statement about Americans who dare demand enforcement of our laws but get highly irked if you dare imply the slightest unflattering thing about illegals in any way.

Please answer the OP. Why should we allow millions of law breakers to be rewarded for their lawbreaking with the right to skip the immigration lines and access the American welfare system? So some employers can save a few bucks? So people who come from the world's 12th largest economy can have even more stuff at American taxpayer expense?

Do tell.
I agree with this post. Who says that illegals are all terrible people? Only you can level those charges when you cannot defend your position. I don't give a rip what kind of people they are, illegal is illegal. They need to go home and start the process to come here legally. Mexico is in far better shape than we are now.
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Old 01-03-2012, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Too far from home.
8,743 posts, read 5,567,866 times
Reputation: 2360
Why is it when the topic of illegals comes up people seem to think that the Mexicans own "illegal". The US is flooded with illegals from so many countries. Every city has it "ethnic" communities where illegals can be found. Many don't "sneak in" to the US, they enter the country legally, on a visa and then overstay - the exception would be Mexicans. While the visa is active they use it (passport) to open bank accounts and get credit cards.

Then you have the children (can't say AB because apparently that's politically incorrect now) of these illegals. These children won't be able to work for the first 18 years of their life, so it's my opinion that if their parent(s) are illegal, they should be all sent back to their country and the child, as a US citizen, can return when he/she is of legal age and can obtain employment, or return at a later date to live with a family member (who is legal?), rather than the government fund these children for 18 years, which funding goes directly to the illegal parent(s). I think it is a form of discrimination to American citizens. If they are going to issue a check and provide food stamps to every child that is an American citizen and the parents are illegal, then every time a baby is born is America that baby should qualify, regardless if the parents are illegal or legal. Why are children who are American citizens of illegals allowed this entitlement while babies born to American citizens aren't??

Government should rethink how they subsidize farmers and what qualifies as a "farm". It's not as if the farmers are paying illegals 100% of their salary - the government is helping to pay them as well. I read an article where some famous person owns "farm" land which he gets a subsidy for. He also "rents" out his land to someone who grows organic veggies. You can plant a tree or a tomato bush on a patch of land and that land can be categorized as a "farm" to collect the subsidy.

Last edited by softblueyz; 01-03-2012 at 01:36 PM..
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Old 01-03-2012, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,798,032 times
Reputation: 4539
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
The way the two countries measure unemployment is very different. For example, Mexico counts all self-employment, which is very common in Mexico. Basically, let's say you live in an apartment building with a sidewalk. You can set up a fruit stand outside your front door and the government will count you as employed. That would never be counted in the US. It's very easy to start a business, any business, in Mexico, but it is very difficult to make enough money at it to be successful beyond merely surviving.
Our unemployment rate is determined by the percentage of people who want to work that don't have jobs. Self-employment is included as work unless the person wants additional employment.

Last edited by afoigrokerkok; 01-03-2012 at 04:10 PM..
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Old 01-03-2012, 04:06 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,391,246 times
Reputation: 2345
We associate illegal with Mexicans rightfully because 60% of all illegals are Mexican. Also the Mexican government constantly lobbies ours for permission for its citizens to openly violate our laws. When challenged on the issue of shipping their least able citizens here the standard response is to make nasty accusations against our country and even more demands for Mexicans. Right now the demand is not only for permission for millions of Mexican citizens to break our immigration laws but to actively be rewarded for doing so in the form of college scholarships and access to the welfare system.

If you are uninformed about this topic please do not comment on it.
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Old 01-03-2012, 04:09 PM
 
Location: OCEAN BREEZES AND VIEWS SAN CLEMENTE
19,899 posts, read 15,334,734 times
Reputation: 6451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
I get tired of foreigners who voluntarily break our laws being held up as role models. They're nothing of the sort. There's nothing positive about someone who breaks into another country without permission, forges documents to take a job and then refuses to leave.

Illegals are simply arrogant creeps who believe themselves about American laws. They should not be rewarded for that behavior.
I believe i grew up thinking the wrong things.

I was raised in a strict Italian household. Taught that right was right and wrong is wrong, and do not do wrong.
I believe in the issue of those illegals who break our laws, and enter into this Country, knowingly and illegally, is wrong.
Question, why is it that those who do break our laws, and do what is wrong, reap the benefits, of breaking our laws, and entering illegally into this Country.

You get rewarded for this. Am i wrong or what! where in the hell did this Country get their priorities so screwed up and why!
People we need to let our voices be heard. We are not wrong!
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Old 01-03-2012, 04:12 PM
 
Location: OCEAN BREEZES AND VIEWS SAN CLEMENTE
19,899 posts, read 15,334,734 times
Reputation: 6451
Deport all illegals, nice try, would never happen. But one can dream can't we.

Then lets see for ourselves the jobs that Americans will not do, because as some say, Americans will not do those jobs.

Once all illegals have been deported, guess we would find out, but not until then!

Stop with the excuses, it is getting old, and such a cop-out.
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Old 01-03-2012, 07:09 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,795 posts, read 12,799,142 times
Reputation: 5467
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
Oh no. I'm sure that people who break our immigration laws, don't speak English even after living here for decades, drive on the roads without a license or insurance, walk away from medical bills, forge documents, work off the books and make demands on our school systems are just fabulous people.



I love how illegal defenders are always ready to make nasty statement about Americans who dare demand enforcement of our laws but get highly irked if you dare imply the slightest unflattering thing about illegals in any way.

Please answer the OP. Why should we allow millions of law breakers to be rewarded for their lawbreaking with the right to skip the immigration lines and access the American welfare system? So some employers can save a few bucks? So people who come from the world's 12th largest economy can have even more stuff at American taxpayer expense?

Do tell.
Why is it okay for you to make stereotypical, nasty comments about entire groups of people based on one small (and yes it is small) characteristic, but you find it offensive that I would do that with you? What's wrong, don't appreciate irony? I do.

I don't have a black and white view on this topic and I don't see it as rewarding breaking the law as I still advocate that illegals pay fines and go onto a probationary period for a period of time, and they still have to stay employed, stay out of trouble, etc. In effect, I believe that immigration policy can be made to address multiple problems. It doesn't have to be an either-or situation. And I don't feel like I need to go out of my way to be nasty and inhumane to these people, especially when I understand the context of why most of them come. Many of you do not, do not know any illegals, have never lived in Mexico, etc. Sorry, but it is from pure ignorance that most of the opinions on this forum are formed.
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