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Old 01-13-2012, 02:24 PM
 
387 posts, read 271,901 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Keegan View Post
How & why would that be the key? Did the police have any reason to think this was a "missing" girl? She gave them a name. They attempted to match that name with records in their system. How would that name ever be connected to the picture attached to a different girl from a different city? In order for the match to happen, all she had to do was disclose her real name & or address. She chose not to do that. The key is that she claimed to be here illegally from another country. It's unfortunate that we got ripped off for the price of sending her to that country, and will apparently be ripped off again for the cost of bringing her back, but I don't see how those officials did anything wrong.
And if a 12 year old still in the middle of puberty shows up claiming to be a 25 year old Russian would she be sent to Russia? I had a 12 year old who could have easily passed for early 20s by the way. And she was a good enough story teller that she might have been able to pull such a thing off. Got herself picked up by a french sailor when she was 11 on the french riveria.

They needed some corroborating data. Without it they should not have moved. And when they could not get a check on the name they should certainly have reached out further.

Teenagers often don't cooperate. The police still need to dig it out. This one was mildly clever than some others but again her story had no substance.

 
Old 01-13-2012, 02:35 PM
 
Location: Martinsville, NJ
6,160 posts, read 10,942,623 times
Reputation: 3939
Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
And if a 12 year old still in the middle of puberty shows up claiming to be a 25 year old Russian would she be sent to Russia? I had a 12 year old who could have easily passed for early 20s by the way. And she was a good enough story teller that she might have been able to pull such a thing off. Got herself picked up by a french sailor when she was 11 on the french riveria.

They needed some corroborating data. Without it they should not have moved. And when they could not get a check on the name they should certainly have reached out further.

Teenagers often don't cooperate. The police still need to dig it out. This one was mildly clever than some others but again her story had no substance.
The system can't be set up to work the way you want it to. She is the extremely rare case of someone scamming the system to GET OUT of the United States. Our government isn't in the business of stopping people from leaving the country if they want to leave. Most of the people immigration deals with are trying to GET IN. Therefore, the system must be designed to keep people out who cannot prove they belong in.
 
Old 01-13-2012, 02:48 PM
 
387 posts, read 271,901 times
Reputation: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Keegan View Post
The system can't be set up to work the way you want it to. She is the extremely rare case of someone scamming the system to GET OUT of the United States. Our government isn't in the business of stopping people from leaving the country if they want to leave. Most of the people immigration deals with are trying to GET IN. Therefore, the system must be designed to keep people out who cannot prove they belong in.
Teen age girls may very well be trying to escape returning home if not to get out of the country. So you still need to sort them no matter what ID they have or who they claim to be. Another city is more likely than another country but it is the same problem.

So you have to sort both those trying to get in and those trying to get out...particularly for that group of young women. And the set is the expert on ID. They sometimes I think are more knowledgable than the police.
 
Old 01-13-2012, 07:48 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,720,291 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
They needed some corroborating data. Without it they should not have moved. And when they could not get a check on the name they should certainly have reached out further.

Teenagers often don't cooperate. The police still need to dig it out. This one was mildly clever than some others but again her story had no substance.
They had corroborating data, she had an ID with the name she chose and she had a job (which means paycheck stubs) to further corroborate her claim. They didn't get a "check" on the name because the name had no prior arrests, the same with her fingerprints and photo - no prior arrests and nothing for missing persons. As I said previously, there is a large population who speak Islander Creole English in Colombia and are Colombian citizens. The Colombian Consul probably spoke to her in English vs Spanish, or a mix of both, for which she must have understood enough of to have him grant her a temp passport to get her there.
 
Old 01-13-2012, 09:28 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,389,012 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
Teen age girls may very well be trying to escape returning home if not to get out of the country. So you still need to sort them no matter what ID they have or who they claim to be. Another city is more likely than another country but it is the same problem.

So you have to sort both those trying to get in and those trying to get out...particularly for that group of young women. And the set is the expert on ID. They sometimes I think are more knowledgable than the police.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
They had corroborating data, she had an ID with the name she chose and she had a job (which means paycheck stubs) to further corroborate her claim. They didn't get a "check" on the name because the name had no prior arrests, the same with her fingerprints and photo - no prior arrests and nothing for missing persons. As I said previously, there is a large population who speak Islander Creole English in Colombia and are Colombian citizens. The Colombian Consul probably spoke to her in English vs Spanish, or a mix of both, for which she must have understood enough of to have him grant her a temp passport to get her there.
Liquid is right. What more proof do or did the cops AND Columbians need?
 
Old 01-14-2012, 10:13 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,967,072 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
Teen age girls may very well be trying to escape returning home if not to get out of the country. So you still need to sort them no matter what ID they have or who they claim to be. Another city is more likely than another country but it is the same problem.

So you have to sort both those trying to get in and those trying to get out...particularly for that group of young women. And the set is the expert on ID. They sometimes I think are more knowledgable than the police.
When things are THAT bad at home, so bad that a girl wants to get thousands of miles away even to a foreign country, then rather than force the girl to live in that home, it would be better to find out before she takes drastic steps like this one did, exactly what is going on in that home. This girl ran away before, did it have to do with some of mom's boyfriends? Or family members themselves?
 
Old 01-14-2012, 05:25 PM
 
Location: Chicago metro
3,377 posts, read 7,075,379 times
Reputation: 1866
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinawina View Post
The original article I read said that they ran the name she gave them and it matched some Columbian person, an adult female. So they started procedures and sent her back. If that is not what happened then fine. It is still probelmatic that a kid who is obviously a minor, doesn't speak Spanish, and knows nothing about Columbia can so easily lie her way into deportation. She was a runaway whose parents had alerted all the proper authorities. How is that not a problem? Why is it a big deal to say some tweaks to the system are necessary? Some likely severely depressed teen who is acting out and whose family is actively looking for her, the police have been given her information, etc can get herself shipped out the country with practically no resistance. Obviously one would not want a system where people can easily pull something like that off.
I was thinking that too, but then I thought about it. The authorities probably looked at her as someone who could've been born in Colombia and was raised in the USA. And also, the article said she was given a job while living there, so she must know more spanish than we are giving her credit for..... unless Colombia is like the USA now that they give jobs to people who are limited in the predominate language.
 
Old 01-14-2012, 07:04 PM
 
387 posts, read 271,901 times
Reputation: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
When things are THAT bad at home, so bad that a girl wants to get thousands of miles away even to a foreign country, then rather than force the girl to live in that home, it would be better to find out before she takes drastic steps like this one did, exactly what is going on in that home. This girl ran away before, did it have to do with some of mom's boyfriends? Or family members themselves?
Your knowledge of teen age girls when the hormones are raging is obviously very limited.

The slight of a boy who does not even know the girl exists is sometimes sufficient to send them off into depression and on occassion suicide.

That they run away from home with little or no basis is quite clear. And if they actually have reasons to object to the home it is far worse.

I suggest the problem is still how she got away with it. No she did not work in a spanish language call center...she worked in an English language one. Many Colombians speak English with a much more pleasing accent than the Indians. No she did not have good ID. Where was she going to get that from? Sure she had ID...from where? Checkable how? Columbian? US?

Comeon..this whole thing is absurd. The whole US Police system outsmarted by a 15 yeaqr old with a completely implausible story.
 
Old 01-15-2012, 12:28 PM
 
Location: 20 years from now
5,110 posts, read 5,455,114 times
Reputation: 3158
Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
Teen age girls may very well be trying to escape returning home if not to get out of the country. So you still need to sort them no matter what ID they have or who they claim to be. Another city is more likely than another country but it is the same problem.

So you have to sort both those trying to get in and those trying to get out...particularly for that group of young women. And the set is the expert on ID. They sometimes I think are more knowledgable than the police.
I think the problem with this line of thinking is that law enforcement officials would have to accuse EVERYONE of lying about their identity, age, and country of origin to do what you are asking.

Unless someone is obviousy lying, how else would they know to look deeper into their stories without assuming that everyone is falsifying their identity in the first place?
 
Old 01-15-2012, 01:54 PM
 
387 posts, read 271,901 times
Reputation: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by itshim View Post
I think the problem with this line of thinking is that law enforcement officials would have to accuse EVERYONE of lying about their identity, age, and country of origin to do what you are asking.

Unless someone is obviousy lying, how else would they know to look deeper into their stories without assuming that everyone is falsifying their identity in the first place?
I would think the going in position is that everyone lies about who they are. In general a quick check will verify the ID as most of those arrested are repeaters.

However for females of young age it should be standard to gain corroboration...family, school, ss number, DL what have you. Just good sense and few enough in number it should not be a big problem. Same for younger men as well though they are not nearly as good at getting older when they choose.
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