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Old 01-07-2012, 12:24 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,722,338 times
Reputation: 22159

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient View Post
So the problem is really structural. If American businesses stopped hiring them and started being willing to hire Americans for real wages - and if American consumers were willing to stomach higher prices - they'd probably stop coming. If the leadership in their own society started actually looking out for them to at least a tiny degree, they'd probably stop coming. But it seems that right-wing politics prefers to avoid these inconvenient truths and instead dumb this debate down to "oh, they're a bunch of little Hitlers bent on destroying our way of life - hey, are those oranges on sales?"

You can't have it both ways, people.
Have you seen prices lately? I've seen beef prices as high as $10 a pound recently. Lettuce as high as $1.50 a head. It's obvious that 30 million illegals are not bringing prices of food down the way they should.

Health care prices most certainly aren't down. For one huge reason -- the costs of all the free health care given to illegals and their children are passed to the insured and paying patients.
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Old 01-07-2012, 01:03 PM
 
Location: In bed with Madonna
475 posts, read 380,003 times
Reputation: 408
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
In truth, i'm willing to pay MUCH MORE for goods and services if they are produced in America by Americans. And the thing is....most Americans i know feel the same way.
.
Wrong ! Americans want everything cheap.
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Old 01-07-2012, 02:19 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,290,347 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marce30 View Post
Wrong ! Americans want everything cheap.
Wrong. I bought an item and I wanted to be Made in the USA, it cost me 3 times as much. I STILL bought it. And I'm an American.
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Old 01-07-2012, 02:21 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,722,338 times
Reputation: 22159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marce30 View Post
Wrong ! Americans want everything cheap.
Maybe - but illegals aren't really keeping anything cheap. What's cheap? Maybe computers but it's not illegals making them. Houses? Yes, maybe it's illegals building houses but they aren't more affordable, in fact many Americans are losing their houses because they can't afford them even though illegals built them. Food is so unaffordable, 20% of the Americans need the government to buy them their food.

Only the employers of the illegals are financially benefitting from them. They benefit very nicely because they aren't providing them even health insurance but having taxpayers subsidize their health care. Illegals might work long hours and never get overtime pay, they might work for below minimum wage -- but the savings aren't being passed on to consumers.

And many illegals work in jobs that definitely don't benefit anyone but the employer. Your illegal housekeeper for example or the illegal that takes care of your lawn, rakes your leaves. It doesn't benefit me in any way that you didn't make your own bed or wash your own dishes. I don't really care if your beds never get made or your leaves aren't raked up. Yet - I am a taxpayer who must support the schools for the children of your landscaper and live-in housekeeper, and provide the free health care they may need because you pay them next to nothing.
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Old 01-07-2012, 03:11 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,427,088 times
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all absolutely true, before
now the ones crossing over are looking for a better life too but it will start with your car, wallet and your 12 year old daughter. mexico's gangbang export biz. bandidos looking for a better life.
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Old 01-07-2012, 06:27 PM
 
387 posts, read 270,806 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
all absolutely true, before
now the ones crossing over are looking for a better life too but it will start with your car, wallet and your 12 year old daughter. mexico's gangbang export biz. bandidos looking for a better life.
Myth...worse an idiot myth. The gangbangers have enough money to come over legally. And they have no particular interest in staying.

Many in fact are legal residents or US citizens. It is believed that one of the major cartel leaders lives in TX.
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Old 01-07-2012, 07:35 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,152,437 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient View Post
Nobody is putting a gun to the head of US business owners and forcing them to hire these people for tiny wages and no benefits. Nobody is putting a gun to the head of US consumers and forcing them to buy the products and services that these people produce.

And people who like to work long hours doing back-breaking farm work for hardly anything do so because they are "greedy?" That's laughable. It's called "being desperate". The "greedy" ones would be the American business owners who hire them over other Americans citizens because they can pay these guys less. But hey, business doesn't need to be regulated and that's the way the market likes it...right?

People should not misunderstand me; I don't condone illegals coming into the country. But be realistic for a moment. It's not that most illegals are evil and come here with the notion of "oh, I'm going to screw over some Americans today - farm hand and toilet cleaner job, here I come! SCORE!" Most of them come here because they are desperate to survive and support their families, and this place offers them a better opportunity to do that than the mess of a place they came from. If you were in their shoes, you'd probably do the same thing.

So the problem is really structural. If American businesses stopped hiring them and started being willing to hire Americans for real wages - and if American consumers were willing to stomach higher prices - they'd probably stop coming. If the leadership in their own society started actually looking out for them to at least a tiny degree, they'd probably stop coming. But it seems that right-wing politics prefers to avoid these inconvenient truths and instead dumb this debate down to "oh, they're a bunch of little Hitlers bent on destroying our way of life - hey, are those oranges on sales?"

You can't have it both ways, people.
Thanks for acknowledging that the employers and their illegal employees are equally guilty. No one is holding a gun to either of their heads. Pray tell, how someone can tell whether or not a product they buy was produced by illegal alien labor? Is there a sign on it like the sign "made in America" but instead it says "made by an illegal"?

We do want the employers including these greedy farmers who use illegal labor to pick their crops to be held accountable. We have said it countless times in here. Or is it selective reading on your part?

Even though many may not come here intentionally to "screw us" they know that by crossing our illegally and taking a job they aren't entitled to is wrong and against the law. Are you claiming that they don't know that by taking a job in this country that an American will be denied that same job? Are you claiming that they don't know that it is wrong to use fake and stolen I.D.'s. ? Please...... And no, most are not desperate. It is just that they can make more money here. No, I would not violate another country's borders and take a job from a citizen of that country. Afterall it is THEIR country and they have a family to feed also.

Again, little if any savings is passed on to the consumer by cheap, illegal labor. The greedy employers are just pocketing the profits. Even if a there was a slight increase in prices when you weigh in the social costs of these illegals we would still be way ahead of the game. Besides if an American is put out of work by and illegal how can he afford to buy anything anyway?

Yes, why isn't their leadership in their own country's looking out for them? Because they don't they should become our responsibility?

No, we don't want it both ways. We want it one way. Enforce our immigration laws and deport these illegals as our laws demand.
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Old 01-07-2012, 07:38 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,802 posts, read 30,052,880 times
Reputation: 17694
Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
Myth...worse an idiot myth. The gangbangers have enough money to come over legally. And they have no particular interest in staying.

Many in fact are legal residents or US citizens. It is believed that one of the major cartel leaders lives in TX.
You are right. I just saw BP bust a line of Accountants and Engineers crossing the desert by Lake Morena. Genius.
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Old 01-07-2012, 07:56 PM
 
387 posts, read 270,806 times
Reputation: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
You are right. I just saw BP bust a line of Accountants and Engineers crossing the desert by Lake Morena. Genius.
Accountants and Engineers and cartel members come by car and airplane. Very hard to bust in the desert.
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Old 01-08-2012, 08:58 AM
 
Location: The land where cats rule
10,946 posts, read 7,979,077 times
Reputation: 3602
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marce30 View Post
Wrong ! Americans want everything cheap.
And of the approximately 300M Americans, how many have you polled to confirm this "fact" of yours?
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