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Old 01-07-2012, 10:11 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,415,357 times
Reputation: 47455

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the bizarre part is not only do they come, but k12 welcomes them, they get paid per head of attendance and so many american kids skip school. k12 a hugh social experiment gone south--- voucher system sooner the better.

 
Old 01-07-2012, 10:39 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,712,131 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by repru View Post
So you don't know that "neither" is a negation?

Sheesh...

Brennans ruling goes like this: The Court noted that illegal immigrants are not a suspect class and public education is not a fundamental right guaranteed by the United States Constitution.  Id. at 223, 102 S.Ct. 2382.   After asserting that public education is not a “right,” the Court stated:  “But neither is it merely some governmental ‘benefit’ indistinguishable from other forms of social welfare legislation.”  Id. at 221, 102 S.Ct. 2382.   Thus, considering the importance of education and how the statute at issue “imposes a lifetime hardship on a discrete class of children not accountable for their disabling status,” id. at 223, 102 S.Ct. 2382, the Court held that the statute “can hardly be considered rational unless it furthers some substantial goal of the state,” id. at 224, 102 S.Ct. 2382.

The court is pointing to no meaningful way to distinguish between education and other governmental benefits in the Plyler context.

Let's make it simple: Neither is it a right, nor is it that different from other types of social welfare legislation.

What k-12 schooling is is a social statute, it is compulsory (a type of social welfare paid by property tax of individuals and business) and ran by the individual State.

Last edited by Liquid Reigns; 01-07-2012 at 11:59 PM..
 
Old 01-08-2012, 07:35 AM
 
1,580 posts, read 1,422,745 times
Reputation: 748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
Where in the US Constitution does it state that an education is required to be given to anybody? Congress can create a law that renders Plyler's ruling moot. Talk about lies and myths...

Yes, the Constitution renders "classes' of persons and people as being different, not all persons here are to receive full Constitutional privileges unless citizen.
That is exactly my point. Unfortunately, we have a government that has emboldened illegal aliens and their supporters to believe that they have all of the rights and benefits of Americans while we foot the bill.

At the end of the day the forged documents that are provided that enables mexican children to cross the border daily and drain our education system is nothing more than another fraud perpetrated against the American taxpayers.
 
Old 01-08-2012, 08:37 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,149,569 times
Reputation: 2130
Seems to me that the pro-illegals are once again trying to deflect away from the real issue: that the taxpayers of THIS country are having to foot the bill for educating foreign nationals. Would it be any different if kids were lined up every morning making their way from Canada to be educated at Americans' expense?? No, it wouldn't.

These arguments, splitting hairs, regarding whether these kids are technically here in the country illegally or not is not the point. Some of the pro-illegals are arguing that they really aren't "illegal" because Mexicans can have "passes" which allow them to cross over for various reasons--shopping, visiting relatives, etc. but again that isn't the point.

Here is the point. It isn't whether they are "technically" here illegally or not. The issue is that we are educating foreign nationals at the expense of the taxpayers of this country!

Here's the bottom line. When American parents and their kids move out of a certain district they can no longer attend the same schools in that district. American kids are required to attend school in the district to which they live.
So how is this any different than what is going on in the border towns??? How does living in another nation altogether qualify these kids to attend schools here, when if they lived here, they would be disqualified simply by moving a few miles away into another district?

This ridiculous arguing over whether they are technically here for the day "illegally" is nothing but another strawman to deflect away from the REAL issue: that the American taxpayer is once again being screwed over and the well-to-do in Mexico get off scott-free by not having to pay the taxes to educate their own countrymen.

Last edited by chicagonut; 01-08-2012 at 09:02 AM.. Reason: spelling
 
Old 01-08-2012, 08:40 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 69,893,919 times
Reputation: 27519
And those kids take the state tests and their grades are measured for NCLB.
And some wonder why Texas has such low Math/Science/Reading scores ?
 
Old 01-08-2012, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,766,418 times
Reputation: 4539
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Seems to me that the pro-illegals are once again trying to deflect away from the real issue: that the taxpayers of THIS country are having to foot the bill for educating foreign nationals. Would it be any different if kids were lined up every morning making their way from Canada to be educated at Americans' expense?? No, it wouldn't.

These arguments, splitting hairs, regarding whether these kids are technically here in the country illegally or not is not the point. Some of the pro-illegals are arguing that they really aren't "illegal" because Mexicans can have "passes" which allow them to cross over for various reasons--shopping, visiting relatives, etc. but again that isn't the point.

Here is the point. It isn't whether they are "technically" here illegally or not. The issue is that we are educating foreign nationals at the expense of the taxpayers of this country!
I was one of the people pointing out the distinction and I am certainly not "pro-illegal."

They don't have "passes" per se. Mexican citizens are allowed to cross the border for whatever reason they want with proper documentation as long as they aren't planning to stay longer than a certain amount of time.

I have a huge problem with allowing these kids to attend American schools. It's absurd. That said, I'm still going to correct people who present lies as facts.
 
Old 01-08-2012, 09:13 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,766,418 times
Reputation: 4539
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
And those kids take the state tests and their grades are measured for NCLB.
And some wonder why Texas has such low Math/Science/Reading scores ?
That's the fault of the hick Texas Legislature, governor, and State Board of Education for not being "progressive" enough and the fault of the Legislature and governor for not allowing high enough taxes.

You knew that, right?
 
Old 01-08-2012, 09:26 AM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,011,547 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
...These arguments, splitting hairs, regarding whether these kids are technically here in the country illegally or not is not the point. Some of the pro-illegals are arguing that they really aren't "illegal" because Mexicans can have "passes" which allow them to cross over for various reasons--shopping, visiting relatives, etc. but again that isn't the point.

Here is the point. It isn't whether they are "technically" here illegally or not. The issue is that we are educating foreign nationals at the expense of the taxpayers of this country!

Here's the bottom line. When American parents and their kids move out of a certain district they can no longer attend the same schools in that district. American kids are required to attend school in the district to which they live...

...This ridiculous arguing over whether they are technically here for the day "illegally" is nothing but another strawman to deflect away from the REAL issue: that the American taxpayer is once again being screwed over and the well-to-do in Mexico get off scott-free by not having to pay the taxes to educate their own countrymen.
Sounds like you want to petition Yac to change the overall forum coverage, so it isn't a matter of whether the topic is on illegal immigration. It has degraded into being anti-Hispanic again anyway. The absolutely amusing thing is that I get told I am off-topic when a thread like this is discussed again for the upteenth time (the original article here is five years old after all), when the topic is titled wrong like this, and when I show that the references (forum contributors not reading what they debate, and not searching on past threads debating the same article) used are not even identified correctly.

That is the point...

Why can't everyone stay on-topic, instead of changing the format to suit themselves?...
 
Old 01-08-2012, 09:28 AM
 
1,580 posts, read 1,422,745 times
Reputation: 748
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Seems to me that the pro-illegals are once again trying to deflect away from the real issue: that the taxpayers of THIS country are having to foot the bill for educating foreign nationals. Would it be any different if kids were lined up every morning making their way from Canada to be educated at Americans' expense?? No, it wouldn't.

These arguments, splitting hairs, regarding whether these kids are technically here in the country illegally or not is not the point. Some of the pro-illegals are arguing that they really aren't "illegal" because Mexicans can have "passes" which allow them to cross over for various reasons--shopping, visiting relatives, etc. but again that isn't the point.

Here is the point. It isn't whether they are "technically" here illegally or not. The issue is that we are educating foreign nationals at the expense of the taxpayers of this country!

Here's the bottom line. When American parents and their kids move out of a certain district they can no longer attend the same schools in that district. American kids are required to attend school in the district to which they live.
So how is this any different than what is going on in the border towns??? How does living in another nation altogether qualify these kids to attend schools here, when if they lived here, they would be disqualified simply by moving a few miles away into another district?

This ridiculous arguing over whether they are technically here for the day "illegally" is nothing but another strawman to deflect away from the REAL issue: that the American taxpayer is once again being screwed over and the well-to-do in Mexico get off scott-free by not having to pay the taxes to educate their own countrymen.
I couldn't agree more. At the end of the day the fact that we have become a country of double laws and standards, is unconscionable. It's as though we are being punished for being law abiding citizens and tax payers while illegal aliens are exempt from the rule of law all in the name of greed, corruption and future votes.
 
Old 01-08-2012, 10:30 AM
 
Location: San Diego
32,799 posts, read 30,044,409 times
Reputation: 17688
They halted busing from the border here and it's fixed the issue for all schools except those right on the border.
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