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Old 01-09-2012, 11:34 AM
 
3,204 posts, read 2,387,476 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by softblueyz View Post

I'm against illegals - ALL - being in the country as much as the next one, but not with the hated that some possess. What I am doing is thinking beyond - the what if??

What answers have you come up with? Maybe you have an answer that no one has thought of. Would you mind sharing?

Unfortunately people get angry when they have lost their livlihood to someone that is breaking the law or paying for someone elses medical care while watching their insurance and car premiums go up. Can you really blame them?
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Old 01-09-2012, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,911,256 times
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I think that you would find those jobs would be filled and by legal citizens. What would happen is that the greedy employers would be forced to pay legal wages. For every business that is using illegals there are those that dont and are still competitive enough with pricing to stay in business and make a profit. I have yet to see any proof that business owners that use illegals do anything but pocket the savings. But lets say they would have to pass on the increase. Say at a hotel of 100 rooms. They hire I'm spit balling here. 10 illegals to clean rooms 8 hours a day. I doubt they hire that many but. say they would have to pay $2.00 an hour more now. thats $160.00 per day say rooms are filled to 40% capacity. $4 dollars a night per room. big deal......
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Old 01-09-2012, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Too far from home.
8,743 posts, read 5,561,993 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isitmeorarethingsnuts? View Post
Who knows what wage the citizens would start at. I guess that would be determined by the supply/demand for legal workers. As stated in your post there are numerous positions that have been filled by illegals and many citizens were displaced. The business owners were the ones to profit so I guess they would be the ones to take the hit. And rightfully so, IMO. Businesses pay what they have to for labor, they will pay the least they have to obviously, or they wouldn't have broken the law to do so.

I understand what you are saying about illegals from other countries also. People willing to break the law to get here are showing that they are willing to lead a life of crime to get what they want. One crime leads to another. It's sad that people don't have the foresight to realize the jeopardy their families are put in. A lust for money comes at a cost. Not only to them, but they cost the taxpayers in numerous ways.

I sometimes wonder if the illegals calling for amnesty are aware that if it were to happen there will just be another round of illegals that will infiltrate the country doing the same thing to them that they have done to the citizens of today. It happened with the last amnesty and will happen again. History is funny that way.

And we wonder why the middle class is shrinking.
I truly hope that if it were to happen that Americans will get back their jobs with fair pay.

I was reading an article where some people - Americans - mostly farmers, pay human traffickers to bring in labor from Mexico. In that story was mention of a Chinese man who paid to have Mexicans smuggled in and they were put to work in 60 Chinese restaurants through NYC.

I was also wondering (dare I??) if someone strongly opposed to illegals, needed contract work done, say a new roof, or a garage built, or house painted, contacted contractors to get quotes and one contractor quotes $4,500 and another quotes $3,000, and they and go with the contractor with the lower quote, and when the contractor shows up to do the work there are 5 workers, 4 being "Mexican" (I myself would assume that there has to be a couple of illegals there and would probably ask), would those that are strongly against illegals allow the lower quote contractor do the job to save $2,000?

Just thinking "outloud".

Last edited by softblueyz; 01-09-2012 at 12:30 PM..
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Old 01-09-2012, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Too far from home.
8,743 posts, read 5,561,993 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isitmeorarethingsnuts? View Post
What answers have you come up with? Maybe you have an answer that no one has thought of. Would you mind sharing?

Unfortunately people get angry when they have lost their livlihood to someone that is breaking the law or paying for someone elses medical care while watching their insurance and car premiums go up. Can you really blame them?
The answers are clearly in the posts. I never professed or alluded to having an answer. You also seem to think I don't see the problem. I am not DEFENDING illegals. I asked a question because I was curious as to what others thought. Does one have to agree or disagree about something to ask a question?

What do you do when you are curious about something or how other people may think about something?
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Old 01-09-2012, 12:12 PM
 
3,204 posts, read 2,387,476 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by softblueyz View Post
I was reading an article where some people - Americans - mostly farmers, pay human traffickers to bring in labor from Mexico. In that story was mention of a Chinese man who paid to have Mexicans smuggled in and they were put to work in 60 Chinese restaurants through NYC.

I was also wondering (dare I??) if someone strongly opposed to illegals, needed contract work done, say a new roof, or a garage built, or house painted, contacted contractors to get quotes and one contractor quotes $4,500 and another quotes $3,000, and they and go with the contractor with the lower quote, and when the contractor shows up to do the work there are 5 workers, 4 being "Mexican" (I myself would assume that there has to be a couple of illegals there and would probably ask), would those that are strongly against illegals allow the lower quote contractor do the job to save $2,000?

Just thinking "outloud".

My SIL just had her roof redone and asked upfront whether thier workforce was legal. Obviously not everyone does. But if the illegals were not here people would pay whatever price was required to get the job done, right?

The $2000.00 they pay extra for their roof will be offset by the taxes they pay eventually.

We had a tornado go through our area a couple years ago and there were groups of Hispanics that came in to do roof repairs. Many had to be redone. Taking shortcuts can be costly.

Are you thinking we should start requiring private parties to inquire about the workforce? I think that would be good, but I think the employers and workers should be the ones fined. If you hire a legitimate company to do work you should feel confidant they are following the laws. If they aren't they aren't reputable. Cutting corners doesn't lead to good workmanship.
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Old 01-09-2012, 12:19 PM
 
3,204 posts, read 2,387,476 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by softblueyz View Post
The answers are clearly in the posts. I never professed or alluded to having an answer. You also seem to think I don't see the problem. I am not DEFENDING illegals. I asked a question because I was curious as to what others thought. Does one have to agree or disagree about something to ask a question?

What do you do when you are curious about something or how other people may think about something?

Yikes!!!!!

You stated that you were trying to think outside the box for answers so I asked if you had any thoughts. That's all!!!!!!

I didn't suggest you were defending illegals as you clearly stated you have been around many European illegals and didn't appreciate the crime they brought with them.

I had no need to YELL at you, I was CURIOUS as to whether you had fresh ideas about how to deal with the issue. You seem to be harboring a bit of the anger you are accusing others of having.

Sorry if I offended you, I was trying to be civil.
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Old 01-09-2012, 01:08 PM
 
373 posts, read 491,041 times
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Let me try to clarify things . The word "mexican" is often used as a slang generic term to describe hispanics. Most illegal aliens are hispanic so it really isnt important to try and narrow down which third world alien country they happen to be from.For all practical reasons just saying "mexican": makes the point...For example when hispanics use the word "gringo" they dont clarify if the gringo is from texas, or north carolina, or canada, or germany do they? Its the same generalzation of a word...Its sorta dumb for an illegal alien to try and demand that he be identified with the correct country from which he came from anyway. The demands of illegals mean nothing here, nothing at all.
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Old 01-09-2012, 01:08 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,389,423 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by softblueyz View Post
Repeating what others say is not exactly a point, nor pointing out something that I myself did isn't useful. I'm fully aware of what is going on with the Mexican immigrant problem. Unfortunately some can't absorb the full content of a post.

I'm against illegals - ALL - being in the country as much as the next one, but not with the hated that some possess. What I am doing is thinking beyond - the what if??
Repeating yourself multiple times is not a useful point either. Your what if seems to be why are Mexicans the focus of much of the illegal immigration debate. We've explained why in reasonable terms. Your problem seems to be that you would prefer a more sinister explaination.
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Old 01-09-2012, 01:18 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,165,382 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
Repeating yourself multiple times is not a useful point either. Your what if seems to be why are Mexicans the focus of much of the illegal immigration debate. We've explained why in reasonable terms. Your problem seems to be that you would prefer a more sinister explaination.
Note that the word "hate" was used also? Right out of the pro-illegal smear handbook.
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Old 01-10-2012, 01:24 AM
 
Location: Too far from home.
8,743 posts, read 5,561,993 times
Reputation: 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isitmeorarethingsnuts? View Post
Yikes!!!!!

You stated that you were trying to think outside the box for answers so I asked if you had any thoughts. That's all!!!!!!

I didn't suggest you were defending illegals as you clearly stated you have been around many European illegals and didn't appreciate the crime they brought with them.

I had no need to YELL at you, I was CURIOUS as to whether you had fresh ideas about how to deal with the issue. You seem to be harboring a bit of the anger you are accusing others of having.

Sorry if I offended you, I was trying to be civil.
May bad. Please accept my apologies. Lost in translation.
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