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Old 01-29-2012, 10:40 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,382,004 times
Reputation: 5895

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
True. I suspect eventually, it will be considered a "hate crime" for anyone to attempt to enforce our laws against "Hispanic" illegal aliens. I'm sick of the pandering.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
It already is considered to be hate by the ethnocentrics in this issue.
I catch your drift quite well. It WILL blow up against the illegals in the end. Since most illegals are some type of Spanish speaker; hatred is growing against Mexicans in particular and with the drug smuggling crap, it's only gonna get worse.
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Old 01-29-2012, 10:59 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,588,778 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
This is exactly why our current and past presidents and members of Congress refuse to enforce our laws. Their corporate masters won't allow it.
This is exactly the problem though, it's working for them the way it is. We still use the products. If they saw a drop in use because of them they would immediately pass laws like this. It's up to us first, we call the shots on that one, they just do the profitable thing. We have to make a collective effort to make it stale, not profitable, but for some reason we are just talk right now, we have yet to walk the walk. Unfortunately they look at numbers they don't have ears just calculators.
Everyone who truly believes change is in need have to speak through their wallets to get attention. Believe me, if we did it would change in a heart beat!
Only buy American, only buy products after you research if they have ever or are using illegal labor. It just takes action.
If my kid told me he hated oranges but kept eating the ones I feed him everyday I certainly wouldn't get rid of oranges. Do you see what I'm saying. We keep eating the oranges picked by illegal workers, still buy meat from plants who use illegals, etc. We really need to stop and stop now. Then, you'll get your laws passed.
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Old 01-29-2012, 11:27 PM
 
Location: Native Floridian, USA
4,896 posts, read 5,895,665 times
Reputation: 6056
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhBeeHave View Post
My DH and I own and operate a small home improvement contracting business. He has been in the trade since HS and has been doing this for over 35 years. 21 years ago we established our business.

Right from the start we have done everything above the boards -- registration with the federal government for a TIN, with the state for sales tax and UI, etc., with local county and towns for licensing. Add to that registering with the EPA for lead certification. Adding insult to injury, our local county collects a couple of hundred dollars above the licensing fee which goes into a fund -- this is the kicker -- the fund reimburses homeowners (up to a certain amount) for improper/faulty work done by unlicensed contractors!

We spent tens of thousands of dollars each year to maintain commercial liability, workers comp, commercial auto, non vehicular equipment, unemployment and disability insurance. We maintain an office with land line phone (no fly-by-night), workshop and garage. Our employees are e-verified, background checked, uniformed and professional in appearance -- as well as being highly qualified and able to speak and comprehend English.

There are many other small business people like us who are finding themselves in the same situation: We are being undercut by business which are operating under-the-wire, paying day laborers cash -- and this isn't just illegals from south of the border (although they make up a greater percentage in this area) but illegals from Poland and other eastern European countries.

Last week, I happened to drive by a long time client's home and noticed an unmarked van in her driveway along with a bunch of Hispanic men cutting on a table saw and ferrying the cut lumber into his house. I emailed him, asking if she had been happy with us in the past, and if so, why he didn't give us a chance to provide a quote on the job. He emailed back we were too expensive. Yes, when compared to a company had no county license sticker, a van with out of state plates and a group of men who appeared to be illegals.

My insurance companies would drop me in a flash if I was paying men under the table, if I had unlicensed men operating my vehicles, etc. They won't cut me any deals if I explain that my projected sales in 2012 are off by 60%. The politicians I have contacted are of little help. My commercial landlord isn't willing to accept a little less in rent to help out.

I refuse to break the law, or add those who are coming here illegally by hiring them off the books. I am at my wits end. We've taken a reduction in my husband's salary (I am unpaid), reduced our overhead markup -- we are now losing money where we once broke even. I don't know what we are going to do when we are forced to provide health insurance or get fined.

Whose American dream is this?
This really made me sad. We deal in small businesses and you are so right in what you have written. We have a client or two who is utilizing illegals, I feel sure.
I wish you the very best.
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Old 01-29-2012, 11:39 PM
 
Location: Native Floridian, USA
4,896 posts, read 5,895,665 times
Reputation: 6056
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Not only that but these ethnocentric advocacy groups are becoming more and more powerful all the time and our politicians are grasping for their votes. Our country is being sold down the river for money, power and votes.
Of course they are becoming more powerful. They keep breeding more and more children born here and yes, they will vote in due time. All they have to do is keep breeding......
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Old 01-30-2012, 07:49 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,189,169 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
This is exactly the problem though, it's working for them the way it is. We still use the products. If they saw a drop in use because of them they would immediately pass laws like this. It's up to us first, we call the shots on that one, they just do the profitable thing. We have to make a collective effort to make it stale, not profitable, but for some reason we are just talk right now, we have yet to walk the walk. Unfortunately they look at numbers they don't have ears just calculators.
Everyone who truly believes change is in need have to speak through their wallets to get attention. Believe me, if we did it would change in a heart beat!
Only buy American, only buy products after you research if they have ever or are using illegal labor. It just takes action.
If my kid told me he hated oranges but kept eating the ones I feed him everyday I certainly wouldn't get rid of oranges. Do you see what I'm saying. We keep eating the oranges picked by illegal workers, still buy meat from plants who use illegals, etc. We really need to stop and stop now. Then, you'll get your laws passed.
There is no way of telling who uses illegal labor and who doesn't. It is only after these businesses have been raided that we do. Some of them don't even hire illegals "knowingly" because they provide them with fake and/or stolen documents that look authentic. Obviously "made in America" doesn't mean a thing as far as what kind of workers they used to produce their products.

How do you know if your produce or meat products or any other food products were picked or had illegals involved in their production? You don't! E-verify is what is needed across the board to stop both the employers and the illegal employees from breaking the law.
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Old 01-30-2012, 09:45 AM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,588,778 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
There is no way of telling who uses illegal labor and who doesn't. It is only after these businesses have been raided that we do. Some of them don't even hire illegals "knowingly" because they provide them with fake and/or stolen documents that look authentic. Obviously "made in America" doesn't mean a thing as far as what kind of workers they used to produce their products.

How do you know if your produce or meat products or any other food products were picked or had illegals involved in their production? You don't! E-verify is what is needed across the board to stop both the employers and the illegal employees from breaking the law.
It's not as hard as you think to find out about most of the places. They've usually had several warnings and citations that are public knowledge. It might mean skipping a burger or two sometimes but you can get less meat at local quality places if it's hard on your budget. Produce as well.

Meatpackers' Profits Hinge On Pool of Immigrant Labor - NYTimes.com

FAIR: When Breaking the Law by Hiring Illegal Aliens Doesn't Pay (http://www.fairus.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=17747&security=1601&news _iv_ctrl=1010 - broken link)

The thing is we just don't do it. We could, but we don't. Why would anyone take us seriously when we don't act on it?
I guess when it comes to a place where it's worth it for us to endure some discomfort and actually speak through our actions it will be a done deal, until then these people just get a fine or a slap on the wrist and still go on making plenty of money off us. It's too bad.
We just like comfort, and we like it easy, they bank on that. Just because they use illegal labor doesn't mean they will make less money, in fact, it usually brings them more money. Why would they do anything different? Morals? lol We don't even have enough morals to stop buying Tyson Chicken. Why would we expect those making money off it to have any?

The climate right now is just to complain and they know it doesn't effect sales so who cares? It's just a trend, we aren't serious we just like to ***** about it. That is how it's seen. It needs action but I'm not sure how many who complain about illegals will actually put their money where their mouth is?
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Old 01-30-2012, 09:54 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,189,169 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
It's not as hard as you think to find out about most of the places. They've usually had several warnings and citations that are public knowledge. It might mean skipping a burger or two sometimes but you can get less meat at local quality places if it's hard on your budget. Produce as well.

Meatpackers' Profits Hinge On Pool of Immigrant Labor - NYTimes.com

FAIR: When Breaking the Law by Hiring Illegal Aliens Doesn't Pay (http://www.fairus.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=17747&security=1601&news _iv_ctrl=1010 - broken link)

The thing is we just don't do it. We could, but we don't. Why would anyone take us seriously when we don't act on it?
I guess when it comes to a place where it's worth it for us to endure some discomfort and actually speak through our actions it will be a done deal, until then these people just get a fine or a slap on the wrist and still go on making plenty of money off us. It's too bad.
We just like comfort, and we like it easy, they bank on that. Just because they use illegal labor doesn't mean they will make less money, in fact, it usually brings them more money. Why would they do anything different? Morals? lol We don't even have enough morals to stop buying Tyson Chicken. Why would we expect those making money off it to have any?

The climate right now is just to complain and they know it doesn't effect sales so who cares? It's just a trend, we aren't serious we just like to ***** about it. That is how it's seen. It needs action but I'm not sure how many who complain about illegals will actually put their money where their mouth is?
We'll have to agree to disagree then. Even if there was a way of checking warnings and citations there is no way of knowing about those who haven't received them yet. Usually receiving a warning or citation puts a stop to their illegal practices anyway so then they are following the law again. In many cases it has been found that their HR department was responsible for hiring illegals and knowing full well that they were. Should we punish the business owner for it by not buying his products?

I get the feeling that you aren't being quite candid about your views on illegal immigration. We've had this same argument presented in here before only to find out otherwise. If I am wrong then so be it.
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Old 01-30-2012, 10:26 AM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,588,778 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
We'll have to agree to disagree then. Even if there was a way of checking warnings and citations there is no way of knowing about those who haven't received them yet. Usually receiving a warning or citation puts a stop to their illegal practices anyway so then they are following the law again.

I get the feeling that you aren't being quite candid about your views on illegal immigration.
See, that's typical. I actually would love for people to work with Unions to protect the American worker. I would ACTUALLY go to great lengths to do so by buying as much as I could from companies that haven't been accused of using illegal labor in the past. Buying local, buying American which is difficult at times. I pay more for my food to do it. I would at least try to put my money where my mouth is even though it proves difficult at times.



I really DON'T want illegal workers here, we suffer for it and so I'm dedicated. I lost my company because I wouldn't hire them. I send letters, buy as much from companies I know don't hire illegal work, before I bought my new home I investigated several construction companies. I don't just spread useless complaints but actual ways to help. I would think everyone opposed to illegals taking over American jobs would be happy to participate, am I wrong?

I guess if you lost your lively hood you'd be more active? It seems if I really do care and actually try and do something about it I have secret motives huh?
So tell me, what makes a perfect activist for the anti immigrant movement?
It's obviously not me who's lost their job to illegals, tries to buy from companies who don't use them. So, who is it then?



Write the company and tell them why you aren't buying their products anymore and don't buy them. I don't buy them if they've ever used illegal help. There are plenty of small farms that don't. Google it. They are proud of it and desperately want people to help them out and use their products. Google American made products and you will find a lot.

Yes, we should punish the business owner for not taking the time to find out if he has illegal help! It's his company, his responsibility. They can't hide behind that excuse anymore, you don't think they use that as a great excuse to avoid legal action? It's not that hard to find out. I know from experience.


Yes, we disagree big time!

Last edited by PoppySead; 01-30-2012 at 10:50 AM..
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Old 01-30-2012, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Oxygen Ln. AZ
9,321 posts, read 16,189,466 times
Reputation: 5685
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhBeeHave View Post
My DH and I own and operate a small home improvement contracting business. He has been in the trade since HS and has been doing this for over 35 years. 21 years ago we established our business.

Right from the start we have done everything above the boards -- registration with the federal government for a TIN, with the state for sales tax and UI, etc., with local county and towns for licensing. Add to that registering with the EPA for lead certification. Adding insult to injury, our local county collects a couple of hundred dollars above the licensing fee which goes into a fund -- this is the kicker -- the fund reimburses homeowners (up to a certain amount) for improper/faulty work done by unlicensed contractors!

We spent tens of thousands of dollars each year to maintain commercial liability, workers comp, commercial auto, non vehicular equipment, unemployment and disability insurance. We maintain an office with land line phone (no fly-by-night), workshop and garage. Our employees are e-verified, background checked, uniformed and professional in appearance -- as well as being highly qualified and able to speak and comprehend English.

There are many other small business people like us who are finding themselves in the same situation: We are being undercut by business which are operating under-the-wire, paying day laborers cash -- and this isn't just illegals from south of the border (although they make up a greater percentage in this area) but illegals from Poland and other eastern European countries.

Last week, I happened to drive by a long time client's home and noticed an unmarked van in her driveway along with a bunch of Hispanic men cutting on a table saw and ferrying the cut lumber into his house. I emailed him, asking if she had been happy with us in the past, and if so, why he didn't give us a chance to provide a quote on the job. He emailed back we were too expensive. Yes, when compared to a company had no county license sticker, a van with out of state plates and a group of men who appeared to be illegals.

My insurance companies would drop me in a flash if I was paying men under the table, if I had unlicensed men operating my vehicles, etc. They won't cut me any deals if I explain that my projected sales in 2012 are off by 60%. The politicians I have contacted are of little help. My commercial landlord isn't willing to accept a little less in rent to help out.

I refuse to break the law, or add those who are coming here illegally by hiring them off the books. I am at my wits end. We've taken a reduction in my husband's salary (I am unpaid), reduced our overhead markup -- we are now losing money where we once broke even. I don't know what we are going to do when we are forced to provide health insurance or get fined.

Whose American dream is this?
I feel for businesses trying to stay afloat today. This is what drives me nuts...We need guest workers and they profit when we do hire them. Why does this country ignore revamping our guest visa program and allow those who register to come in legally? Or how about sealing the border and putting legal residents to work? This gov is not interested in saving your business or employing people, this gov only wants the votes.This issue with our border could be solved and you can't tell anyone with a brain cell that it can't. We have the capability to move tens of thousands of military people all over the globe in a matter of hours and we can't patrol our own border or build a fence?
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Old 01-30-2012, 01:30 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,588,778 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by MotleyCrew View Post
I feel for businesses trying to stay afloat today. This is what drives me nuts...We need guest workers and they profit when we do hire them. Why does this country ignore revamping our guest visa program and allow those who register to come in legally? Or how about sealing the border and putting legal residents to work? This gov is not interested in saving your business or employing people, this gov only wants the votes.This issue with our border could be solved and you can't tell anyone with a brain cell that it can't. We have the capability to move tens of thousands of military people all over the globe in a matter of hours and we can't patrol our own border or build a fence?
I totally agree! It can be done!
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