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Old 01-18-2012, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,807,269 times
Reputation: 3028

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Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
That is a really weird view. If we added 10 million completely crime free citizens to our 300 million do you think the crime rate would drop to zero?

Do you have any idea how this works?

How abut Unz?

The American Conservative -- His-Panic
I see you're still pushing the same article. Old habits die hard.

Quote:
Sorry but in general a high illegal population lowers crime rates. See His Panic by Unz.
If You Are Concerned About Government Spending, Why do You Want to Deport All Illegals?

Quote:
Check out His Panic by Ron Unz. From your side...
An illegal alien & his wife planned to kidnap small girls they scoped out a bus stop, they had ransom notes, pictures of

Quote:
Perhaps the Unz article in the American Conservative will help you understand.

The American Conservative -- His-Panic
I must be stupid! Could someone please explain to me how this works?

Quote:
Perhaps the most interesting is the article by Unz in the American Conservative making the point that immigrant crime is lower than native. There is an active dialog on this one though no one actually refutes Unz...they just question his motives and certain specifics.
Sick of the same, tired old arguments by the pro-illegals?


Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
And yes a complete POS. But that is not relevant to the illegal crime rate.

Would you want Gacy held up as the model of the American Contractor?
How is a heinous crime committed by an ILLEGAL ALIEN irrelevant to the ILLEGAL ALIEN crime rate?

 
Old 01-18-2012, 02:52 PM
 
387 posts, read 270,592 times
Reputation: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
I see you're still pushing the same article. Old habits die hard.





How is a heinous crime committed by an ILLEGAL ALIEN irrelevant to the ILLEGAL ALIEN crime rate?
Might that be because the antis arguments are repetitious and merit the same repetitious answer?

The illegal crime rate is not significantly changed by any one crime.

Tell you what I will top your baby killer with John Wayne Gacy.

How about Charles Roberts? Killed 4 and wounded 11 little Amish girls.

Must be a terrible crime problem with these Americans.
 
Old 01-18-2012, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,878,727 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
Might that be because the antis arguments are repetitious and merit the same repetitious answer?

The illegal crime rate is not significantly changed by any one crime.

Tell you what I will top your baby killer with John Wayne Gacy.

How about Charles Roberts? Killed 4 and wounded 11 little Amish girls.

Must be a terrible crime problem with these Americans.
Your argument only serves to show that we produce enough criminals of our own without having to importing more. Every victim of an illegal only spot lights why we need to enforce our laws, secure our border and be very selective about who we reward with a VISA.
While I agree that the vast majority of illegals are not violent criminals, each and every one of them is in fact breaking laws making them criminals. We simply don't need anymore criminals. We don't owe any free passes and we can certainly afford to be much more selective about who we might view as acceptable.
 
Old 01-18-2012, 04:44 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,807,269 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
Might that be because the antis arguments are repetitious and merit the same repetitious answer?
You just happened to mention the same article posted repeatedly by olecapt. Right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
The illegal crime rate is not significantly changed by any one crime.

Tell you what I will top your baby killer with John Wayne Gacy.

How about Charles Roberts? Killed 4 and wounded 11 little Amish girls.

Must be a terrible crime problem with these Americans.
This scumbag is not MY baby killer. He's an illegal alien miscreant who was deported, returned (as they usually do), and raped and murdered an infant. The fact that you are attempting to marginalize his heinous crime by mentioning the crimes of sicko citizens speaks volumes. We don't need these rapists and murderers in our country, period. We already have more than enough.

How many must become victims of animals like this POS before you and other pro-illegals stop making lame comparisons between them and homegrown scum? This isn't a game of one-upmanship, and one crime does not negate another. No, all illegals are not rapists or murderers, but that does not change the fact that an unknown percentage are, and they are wreaking havoc. I am sick of hearing about illegal aliens raping and murdering infants, toddlers and elderly women. They ALL need to leave, including the so-called "otherwise law-abiding."
 
Old 01-18-2012, 05:02 PM
 
387 posts, read 270,592 times
Reputation: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
You just happened to mention the same article posted repeatedly by olecapt. Right.



This scumbag is not MY baby killer. He's an illegal alien miscreant who was deported, returned (as they usually do), and raped and murdered an infant. The fact that you are attempting to marginalize his heinous crime by mentioning the crimes of sicko citizens speaks volumes. We don't need these rapists and murderers in our country, period. We already have more than enough.

How many must become victims of animals like this POS before you and other pro-illegals stop making lame comparisons between them and homegrown scum? This isn't a game of one-upmanship, and one crime does not negate another. No, all illegals are not rapists or murderers, but that does not change the fact that an unknown percentage are, and they are wreaking havoc. I am sick of hearing about illegal aliens raping and murdering infants, toddlers and elderly women. They ALL need to leave, including the so-called "otherwise law-abiding."
Actually he is your baby killer. You are using him in an attempt to make a point. But that point is straight wrong.

I would hold that there are likely less "baby killers" among illegals than among similar legals and natives. So if you remove the illegal immigrants from the populations the probability of a given baby getting killed in the remaining population likely goes up...not down.

So the probability of a particular baby getting murdered goes up. Why would you think increasing the possibility of a baby getting murdered is a good thing?

I agree that this guy is a scumbag POS. So are the two I cited. Actually worse scumbag POSs. I also point out these anecdotes are unpleasant and sad and irrelevant to the illegal immigration issue.
 
Old 01-19-2012, 02:07 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,807,269 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
Actually he is your baby killer. You are using him in an attempt to make a point. But that point is straight wrong.

I would hold that there are likely less "baby killers" among illegals than among similar legals and natives. So if you remove the illegal immigrants from the populations the probability of a given baby getting killed in the remaining population likely goes up...not down.

So the probability of a particular baby getting murdered goes up. Why would you think increasing the possibility of a baby getting murdered is a good thing?

I agree that this guy is a scumbag POS. So are the two I cited. Actually worse scumbag POSs. I also point out these anecdotes are unpleasant and sad and irrelevant to the illegal immigration issue.
No, I am not using him to make a point. I am commenting on this thread. You, on the other hand, have chosen to deflect from the topic by injecting other irrelevant sickos into the discussion.

The bolded paragraph is utter BS. There are far too many incidents of illegals raping and/or killing babies and children to support this. Are you suggesting the countless victims of illegals would have been victimized by a citizen? Are you suggesting it was inevitable for this baby to be raped and killed by a citizen, if not by this illegal? Incredible!
 
Old 01-19-2012, 03:04 PM
 
387 posts, read 270,592 times
Reputation: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
No, I am not using him to make a point. I am commenting on this thread. You, on the other hand, have chosen to deflect from the topic by injecting other irrelevant sickos into the discussion.

The bolded paragraph is utter BS. There are far too many incidents of illegals raping and/or killing babies and children to support this. Are you suggesting the countless victims of illegals would have been victimized by a citizen? Are you suggesting it was inevitable for this baby to be raped and killed by a citizen, if not by this illegal? Incredible!
Again. The perpetrator was brought up as an example. I countered with a couple of worse examples. The real question is one of rates and probabilities.

I am sorry that you don't understand probability and rates. Anecdotes can individual be horrible things that should not have happened. But as soon as you wish to establish causality or probbilities you must look at the statistics and not the anecdotes.

I am suggesting that other sections of the American population rape and mistreat children at a far higher rate than do the illegal immigrants.

And it is of course inevitable that some baby will be mistreated and killed by someone...and that illegals will do it less often than some other groups in the society.
 
Old 01-20-2012, 07:10 PM
 
Location: SW Kansas
1,787 posts, read 3,345,692 times
Reputation: 1401
Who is capable of raping a baby?? What kind of heinous animal could do such a thing? The fact that he is an illegal alien and shouldn't have been here in the first place is especially infuriating. Deporting him is not the answer, execution would be better, but no way should he be turned loose to repeat his crime. We really need to secure our borders.
 
Old 01-20-2012, 07:27 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,878,727 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
In general illegals have a lower crime rate than natives. It is in fact likely a sufficiently big differential that removing the illegals would increase the crime rate. So if you deport them all the probabiliy of you or a friend getting robbed goes up...not down.

Terrible anecdotes are easily found for illegals, legals or natives. They have no meat. You need the actual numbers.
Are you saying that if this guy didnt do it then a home grown criminal would have been waiting in line to make sure it was done? I dont believe this is true nor likely. What I do believe is that we produce far to many criminals without importing more or making excuses for not securing our border and controling who we allow in.
In general all illegals are breaking laws, in general many if not most are committing various forms of fraud. In general Illegals are here without permission. In general and this is what I think you meant to say, in general most are not violent criminals.
 
Old 01-20-2012, 07:39 PM
 
387 posts, read 270,592 times
Reputation: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Are you saying that if this guy didnt do it then a home grown criminal would have been waiting in line to make sure it was done? I dont believe this is true nor likely. What I do believe is that we produce far to many criminals without importing more or making excuses for not securing our border and controling who we allow in.
In general all illegals are breaking laws, in general many if not most are committing various forms of fraud. In general Illegals are here without permission. In general and this is what I think you meant to say, in general most are not violent criminals.
I am saying that, if all illegals were removed, the probability of any given baby getting raped would increase. Now that is a very small probability. Baby rape is not up high on the list of crimes committed. But that chance of your baby daughter getting raped could well go up if all the illegals were removed.

Note that I am reaching well past what the statistics can actually tell us and I am making the assumption that baby rape would track violent crime rates. But it is a reasonable assumption lacking detailed data.
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