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Old 01-19-2012, 07:31 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,149,569 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Huh? Hispanics are a minority in the United States, but that is not synonymous to having "Mexican" ancestry. And as argued (50 million, anyone?), the illegal alien population segment are not U.S. citizens or Legal Permanent Residents, and thus unable to sponsor their relatives to come here.

The higher you place the illegal alien population to be (and the portion comprised by Mexicans), the more it affects your argument that Mexicans are able to sponsor their relatives. I think that kind of irrational logic blew up an evil robot on Star Trek. How can you ever resolve it within the same person?

With some of the numbers I see thrown around here, Blacks would then become the largest U.S. citizen minority able to sponsor any immigrant relatives (with a chance of still being of a Mexican nationality). Is that happening? Does it disbar them from doing so under your failed reasoning?

Tonight I took a break to visit my 95 year-old Grandmother...

I found her perspective to be refreshing modern, and still having better reasoning skills, compared to what I see at large here...



What part of most of the two-thirds of immigrants not having any quotas are you not picking up? Illegal aliens have an extremely limited international impact on immigrant visas being issued in a country other than Mexico, because they would not (A) disrupt the relationship to a potential U.S. citizen sponsor (unless it is an example of a citizen marrying Korean when they can't marry an illegal alien Mexican), or (B) disrupt employment-based visa hiring by companies (those quotas are fully sourced each year anyway).

The "entire world" (you're going to win 'Immigration Bingo') largely lacks the potential to be sponsored for legal immigration, so they are not being blocked, much less by an illegal alien...

Whom here are still believing that Joe Random Nationality can somehow file the equivalent of an I-130 on their own, where it just becomes a wait in some "line"?...

If you do, find it on the USCIS website for me...



Errmm, find such a "whine"...
Since I provided you with a link that proves that mostly Mexicans and other Latinos are here by far in the largest numbers both legally and illegally how can you possibly say that most Hispanics are not of Mexican or other Latino ancestry? I am talking about the mainland, not Puerto Rico. I never said that the illegal kind can sponsor their relatives. Obviously since Mexicans and other Latinos are here in the largest numbers "legally" they would have an advantage over other nationalities in sponsorship.

From this article: http://www.cmsm.org/forum/forum_winter11_hispanics.html

"Nearly 50% of the Hispanics in the United States have their origin in Mexico. The remaining 50% come from different countries of the American continent, such as: El Salvador, the Dominican Republic and Colombia."

Last edited by chicagonut; 01-19-2012 at 08:02 AM..
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Old 01-19-2012, 08:17 AM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,011,547 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Since I provided you with a link that proves that mostly Mexicans and other Latinos are here by far in the largest numbers both legally and illegally how can you possibly say that most Hispanics are not of Mexican or other Latino ancestry? I am talking about the mainland, not Puerto Rico. I never said that the illegal kind can sponsor their relatives. Obviously since Mexicans and other Latinos are here in the largest numbers "legally" they would have an advantage over other nationalities in sponsorship.
It continues unabated: An immigrant that naturalizes (or someone that is born here as a U.S. citizen) is not a 'foreign national' (or rightfully considered an immigrant) by the time time that they have gained the ability to sponsor their Immediate Relatives. A point that I have had to make more repeatably in the last few days is that Hispanics (and the subset of the Mexican-born within that classification) are judged here by a seemingly different standard - That mutually-exclusive phraseology is not being thought through:

"Mexicans are here illegally in far greater numbers, but also able to sponsor far more relatives to come."...

"A Mexican that has naturalized here to gain an ability to sponsor relatives is still called a 'Mexican' instead of an 'American' when they do so, and still called an 'immigrant' when an immigrant cannot sponsor those same relatives."...

"Illegal Aliens (most defined to be Mexican) are 'blocking' other legal immigrants from coming, and especially those from other countries."...

"More shouldn't be allowed to come here the right way because more of them came the wrong way."...

"U.S. citizens are being adversely affected by immigration (both legal and illegal), thus we need to stop their ability to sponsor relatives, and give that privilege to more immigrants that don't have U.S. citizen relatives."...

As said, these irrational loops don't resolve consistently within themselves, but are still used as an entire platform of attempted reasoning...

The nationality, and citizenship thereof, that has the biggest advantage to sponsor their relatives to immigrate to the United States is that of the United States...

Last edited by IBMMuseum; 01-19-2012 at 08:34 AM..
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Old 01-19-2012, 01:20 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
So, using other Mexicans as an example of not being able to immigrate, while saying immigration should be limited specifically from Mexico? It doesn't work that way, a Mexican (or any other Foreign National) does not gain an ability to immigrate purely because some other Mexican would not come legally. Two-thirds of all immigrants have an Immediate Relative relationship to a U.S. citizen (largely without quotas), the other third are almost all employment-based. The Diversity Visa Program is limited to 50,000 per year, and is not able to be used from Mexico (among many other countries) because of high legal immigration rates.

In fact, odds are higher from a country able to host the Diversity Visa Program that a potential immigrant with no other qualifications could immigrate legally to the United States...

There is a failure here to even understand the legal immigration system, and those mistaken beliefs are affecting the perspective to illegal immigration...
Unfortunately, our legal immigration system has been shot to hell due to massive illegal immigration from Mexico. If not for this invasion, we would not have an "immigration" problem.
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Old 01-19-2012, 01:36 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Huh? Hispanics are a minority in the United States, but that is not synonymous to having "Mexican" ancestry. And as argued (50 million, anyone?), the illegal alien population segment are not U.S. citizens or Legal Permanent Residents, and thus unable to sponsor their relatives to come here.

The higher you place the illegal alien population to be (and the portion comprised by Mexicans), the more it affects your argument that Mexicans are able to sponsor their relatives. I think that kind of irrational logic blew up an evil robot on Star Trek. How can you ever resolve it within the same person?

With some of the numbers I see thrown around here, Blacks would then become the largest U.S. citizen minority able to sponsor any immigrant relatives (with a chance of still being of a Mexican nationality). Is that happening? Does it disbar them from doing so under your failed reasoning?

Tonight I took a break to visit my 95 year-old Grandmother...

I found her perspective to be refreshing modern, and still having better reasoning skills, compared to what I see at large here...



What part of most of the two-thirds of immigrants not having any quotas are you not picking up? Illegal aliens have an extremely limited international impact on immigrant visas being issued in a country other than Mexico, because they would not (A) disrupt the relationship to a potential U.S. citizen sponsor (unless it is an example of a citizen marrying Korean when they can't marry an illegal alien Mexican), or (B) disrupt employment-based visa hiring by companies (those quotas are fully sourced each year anyway).

The "entire world" (you're going to win 'Immigration Bingo') largely lacks the potential to be sponsored for legal immigration, so they are not being blocked, much less by an illegal alien...

Whom here are still believing that Joe Random Nationality can somehow file the equivalent of an I-130 on their own, where it just becomes a wait in some "line"?...

If you do, find it on the USCIS website for me...



Errmm, find such a "whine"...
Again, prior to the illegal alien invasion from Mexico, we did not have an immigration problem in this country. Nor did we have such an enormous requirement for ESL classes, such astronomical school budget deficits, or hospital closures due to the overwhelming number of non-paying "immigrants" flooding our ERs. Illegal aliens from Mexico are bankrupting this country, and creating a level of divisiveness I have never seen in my entire life. Soon we will implode. Then, perhaps all of the bleeding hearts and pro-illegals will finally be satisfied.

We simply cannot sustain this level of illegal immigration and the fleecing of U.S. taxpayers. No doubt, once illegals have driven us into total insolvency they will return home. After all, they are only here to get what they can, and once there is nothing left to take, they will flee like rats from a sinking ship. They clearly don't give a damn about this country.
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Old 01-19-2012, 03:20 PM
 
387 posts, read 270,741 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Again, prior to the illegal alien invasion from Mexico, we did not have an immigration problem in this country. Nor did we have such an enormous requirement for ESL classes, such astronomical school budget deficits, or hospital closures due to the overwhelming number of non-paying "immigrants" flooding our ERs. Illegal aliens from Mexico are bankrupting this country, and creating a level of divisiveness I have never seen in my entire life. Soon we will implode. Then, perhaps all of the bleeding hearts and pro-illegals will finally be satisfied.

We simply cannot sustain this level of illegal immigration and the fleecing of U.S. taxpayers. No doubt, once illegals have driven us into total insolvency they will return home. After all, they are only here to get what they can, and once there is nothing left to take, they will flee like rats from a sinking ship. They clearly don't give a damn about this country.
Primary and secondary education populations are up about 3% since 2000 and flat since 2005. This would indicate that any illegal immigration population is just offsetting the drop in the other groups. And illegal immigrants are a small part of the uninsured hitting our hospital ERs.

Our economy is in no way threatened by them. Wall Street did far more damage in a greedy binge.
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Old 01-19-2012, 04:52 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
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Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
Primary and secondary education populations are up about 3% since 2000 and flat since 2005. This would indicate that any illegal immigration population is just offsetting the drop in the other groups. And illegal immigrants are a small part of the uninsured hitting our hospital ERs.

Our economy is in no way threatened by them. Wall Street did far more damage in a greedy binge.
Really? Tell that to the patients in Atlanta who are now without a dialysis clinic due to illegal aliens; and the countless hospitals facing budget deficits exacerbated by non-paying illegal aliens.

Quote:
For Grady, which has served Atlanta’s poor for 117 years, it was an excruciating choice, a stark reflection of what happens when the country’s inadequate health care system confronts its defective immigration policy.

Like other hospitals, particularly public hospitals, Grady has been left to provide costly treatments to nonpaying illegal residents who most likely could not have obtained such care in their home countries. American taxpayers and health care consumers have borne the expense.
The Breaking Point - Closing of Dialysis Unit Hits Illegal Immigrants Hard - Series - NYTimes.com

Quote:
In Texas, where the state comptroller estimates illegal immigrants cost hospitals $1.3 billion in 2006, the University of Texas Medical Branch in Galveston is considering denying cancer care to such immigrants.

One thing is clear: Undocumented immigrants are driving up the number of people without health insurance. The Pew Hispanic Center estimates that 59% of the nation's illegal immigrants are uninsured, compared with 25% of legal immigrants and 14% of U.S. citizens. Illegal immigrants represent about 15% of the nation's 47 million uninsured people — and about 30% of the increase since 1980.
Rising health care costs put focus on illegal immigrants - USATODAY.com

Quote:
Since April, UMC has been spending about $2 million per month providing emergency dialysis services to 80 illegal immigrants, Brannman said.

He projects that these services at UMC could run more than $24 million in the current fiscal year.

In each of the five prior years, the hospital provided the same emergency services to half as many illegal immigrants for a little more than $1 million per month.
Quote:
Brannman said the hospital receives no reimbursement from federal, state or local sources to provide this life-saving treatment for people who have entered the country illegally.

"When we're projecting a budget deficit of $70 million for fiscal year 2010, you can see that $24 million in dialysis treatment that's not reimbursed is an awfully big chunk," Brannman said.
Illegal immigrants burden UMC - News - ReviewJournal.com








Testimony about "51 Florida Hospitals in trouble" due to illegal aliens expenses - YouTube


Mexicans --- "Anchors Aweigh" on US Soil - YouTube


1 Florida Hospital Testimony video goes National on DC news. - YouTube


Quote:
Nearly half, 47 percent, of illegal-immigrant households consist of parents with children. This proportion is more than double that of U.S.-born households, where just 21 percent are parents with children. Over the years, the number of children of illegal immigrants has increased significantly.

In 2003, there were 4.3 million children of illegal immigrants. By 2008 that number had climbed to 5.5 million, more than the entire population of Colorado. The large number of children of illegal immigrants greatly impacts public schools and education-funding costs.

The Pew study found that in 2008, “Children of unauthorized immigrants are 6.8 percent of students enrolled in kindergarten through grade 12,” an increase from the 5.4 percent in 2003. The proportion was double in California, where 13.5 percent of k-12 students in 2008 were the children of illegal immigrants.

Given these percentages, cost estimates of educating these children are staggering.
Educating illegal immigrants is costly *| ajc.com

Quote:
Public education is the largest expense state and local governments incur on behalf of illegal aliens. It has been estimated that immigration will account for 96 percent of the increase in the school-age population in the United States over the next 50 years. Illegal aliens will account for as much as half of the increase.
The Burden of Plyler v. Doe by Edwin S. Rubenstein - The Social Contract Press

Quote:
There are roughly 19,000 illegal immigrants in state prisons, representing 11% of all inmates. That's costing $970 million during the current fiscal year. The feds kick in a measly $111 million, leaving the state with an $859 million tab.

Schools are the toughest to calculate. Administrators don't ask kids about citizenship status. Anyway, many children of illegal immigrants were born in this country and automatically became U.S. citizens.

If you figure that the children of illegal immigrants attending K-12 schools approximates the proportion of illegal immigrants in the population, the bill currently comes to roughly $4 billion. Most is state money; some local property taxes.
Illegal immigrants are a factor in the budget gap math - Los Angeles Times
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Old 01-19-2012, 05:05 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,011,547 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Unfortunately, our legal immigration system has been shot to hell due to massive illegal immigration from Mexico. If not for this invasion, we would not have an "immigration" problem.
You still haven't said exactly how illegal aliens affect the would-be sponsorship of a legal immigrant...

Let me provide a possible scenario: A U.S. citizen sponsors his wife and stepchildren to immigrate from Mexico. There are no quotas restricting these Immediate Relative immigrants, and they only have to wait for other legal immigrants that are processing through the same U.S. Consulate ahead of them. Illegal aliens are not in the system at all, so they do not fill any quotas, or delay the processing of any legal immigrant.

You're screaming, and you don't even know what you are screaming about...
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Old 01-19-2012, 05:30 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,286,582 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
You still haven't said exactly how illegal aliens affect the would-be sponsorship of a legal immigrant...

Let me provide a possible scenario: A U.S. citizen sponsors his wife and stepchildren to immigrate from Mexico. There are no quotas restricting these Immediate Relative immigrants, and they only have to wait for other legal immigrants that are processing through the same U.S. Consulate ahead of them. Illegal aliens are not in the system at all, so they do not fill any quotas, or delay the processing of any legal immigrant.

You're screaming, and you don't even know what you are screaming about...
Benicar was clear to me: the ILLEGAL aliens have helped clog up the whole system of immigration since the former have to be dealt with by the justice system leaving less resources to handle the legal aliens.
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Old 01-19-2012, 05:47 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
You still haven't said exactly how illegal aliens affect the would-be sponsorship of a legal immigrant...

Let me provide a possible scenario: A U.S. citizen sponsors his wife and stepchildren to immigrate from Mexico. There are no quotas restricting these Immediate Relative immigrants, and they only have to wait for other legal immigrants that are processing through the same U.S. Consulate ahead of them. Illegal aliens are not in the system at all, so they do not fill any quotas, or delay the processing of any legal immigrant.

You're screaming, and you don't even know what you are screaming about...
I can't make it any simpler. We do not have the capacity for unlimited immigration. Illegal aliens from Mexico have used Mexico's slots and countless other countries. After all, we currently have at least 10% of the entire citizenry of Mexico living in this country, and according to recent data, the majority are here illegally. Imagine if we had at least 10% of the citizens of every country in the world living in the United States. I shudder to think.

And yes, I will continue to voice my opposition to this devastating invasion. If that's "screaming" -- so be it.
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Old 01-19-2012, 05:51 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
Benicar was clear to me: the ILLEGAL aliens have helped clog up the whole system of immigration since the former have to be dealt with by the justice system leaving less resources to handle the legal aliens.
Thank you! Indeed they have made a mess of our entire immigration system, and our economy. I can't believe anyone would even attempt to deny it. But, those with an amnesty agenda must continue to follow script.
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