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Old 01-21-2012, 06:42 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,975,418 times
Reputation: 22179

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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
And you believe that Joe Random Nationality can file some sort of paperwork unsponsored, so that they can just wait in a "line" to eventually come here?...
So are you of the group that believes that the entire world's population has the right to move here illegally and expect the good easy life? Even the over 2 billion impoverished individuals of the world?

Your question otherwise is absurd. 100% of Americans don't have some right to move to another nation, not even Mexico. All other nations have some kind of immigration laws, some limits placed. Guess how Mexico would react if truckloads of our inner city types or rural poor were to start moving en masse to Mexico.

It's foolish to insist that there can be no immigration laws of any kind because someone somewhere can't come here easily and legally then.
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Old 01-21-2012, 07:15 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,032,654 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
So are you of the group that believes that the entire world's population has the right to move here illegally and expect the good easy life? Even the over 2 billion impoverished individuals of the world?

Your question otherwise is absurd. 100% of Americans don't have some right to move to another nation, not even Mexico. All other nations have some kind of immigration laws, some limits placed. Guess how Mexico would react if truckloads of our inner city types or rural poor were to start moving en masse to Mexico.

It's foolish to insist that there can be no immigration laws of any kind because someone somewhere can't come here easily and legally then.
Whoosh!!!...

Somebody needs some better reading and comprehension skills. A majority of the world occupants will never fill the criteria to come here in their entire lives. You are fear-mongering the impossible.

See another recent post of mine - I've been all over the world, I don't intend to have those that can't be sponsored to come here, nor is it possible for me to sponsor them at all. You commented before I had said it was easy to immigrate my family, and never responded to a request for clarification.

You guys need to get it a little more figured out to what someone is talking about...
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Old 01-22-2012, 03:12 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,975,418 times
Reputation: 22179
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Whoosh!!!...

Somebody needs some better reading and comprehension skills. A majority of the world occupants will never fill the criteria to come here in their entire lives. You are fear-mongering the impossible.

See another recent post of mine - I've been all over the world, I don't intend to have those that can't be sponsored to come here, nor is it possible for me to sponsor them at all. You commented before I had said it was easy to immigrate my family, and never responded to a request for clarification.

You guys need to get it a little more figured out to what someone is talking about...
Exactly. 100% of Americans do not meet the immigration criteria that other nations use. Just like our laws do not allow in 100% of Mexicans or Haitians, or Guatemalans.

And that does NOT give them any excuse to break the laws.

The USA takes in BY FAR more legal immigrants than any other country. Legal immigration should be revamped however because it's far too heavy on the family sponsorship side and too light on qualified work sponsored immigrants.

Family sponsorship should be limited to spouse and minor aged children, and instead of so many elderly and infirm and unskilled family members brought in, we should have more brought in with work visas.

That would go along way to adding some fairness to our immigration. As it stands now -- have zero job skills, zero ability to work for a living but have a relative here and you're in. Be hard working and capable of providing for yourself and it's a long wait.

Do you know that sponsors of immigrants are not expected to provide their immigrants a comprehensive health insurance plan and are not expected to pay the costs of their immigrants' health care? The financial responsibility from family sponsors amounts to a joke.
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Old 01-22-2012, 09:59 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,032,654 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
...Do you know that sponsors of immigrants are not expected to provide their immigrants a comprehensive health insurance plan and are not expected to pay the costs of their immigrants' health care? The financial responsibility from family sponsors amounts to a joke.
The sponsorship levels are even lower for employment-based visas, and additional costs there can easily be avoided (if the company becomes aware of something coming their way, they merely drop the employment to put the worker out-of-status). Servicemembers are able to sponsor family at a lower standard (100% of poverty level or above for the household, instead of 125%) as well, plus being able to draw immediate benefits off-limit to other immigrants for five years. Why doesn't your focus reflect that?

You flit about on so much on the fluffy buzzwords, but dodge the questions when it comes down to it...
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Old 01-23-2012, 05:53 AM
Yac
 
5,884 posts, read 6,321,322 times
Unless people start to actually address what is being discussed instead of simply ranting/resorting to strawman arguments, this thread will be closed. Last thing we need is another thread where both sides don't want to talk, only fight.
Yac.
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Old 01-23-2012, 11:50 AM
 
791 posts, read 355,643 times
Reputation: 141
America's ability to sustain it's people is being stretched to the breaking point. In the last 20 years we've paved over much arable land to build housing for our increasing population. We've outsourced the growing of our food to other countries because we no longer have the ability to grow it all ourselves. We've gone from an exporter of food to an importer. We've seen our prices for that food increase as a result. This results in a lower standard of living for ALL Americans.

It is my opinion that this nation needs an immigration 'time out'. A moratorium. We need to get our house in order and have a national discussion on where we want to go from here. We need that discussion to be HONEST, and for people who are easily offended to get over themselves. Legal immigration, once resumed, should be limited to no more than 200,000/year, based on ability. Family reunification should be limited to nuclear family only.

With the passage and signing of the new NDAA, posse comitatus is no longer the law of the land. While I disagree with it, it does give us the ability to use our military to lock down our borders and end the flood of illegal immigration into this country. We should do this YESTERDAY. We should also VIGOROUSLY enforce our current immigration and employment laws, and heavily fine AND JAIL those employers who ignore it.

We should deport ALL illegal aliens, regardless of nationality, when they are discovered in the course of normal law enforcement duties. US citizen children of illegal aliens may remain here if they have legal family to stay with, otherwise they should go with their parents. The 14th Amendment should be amended to make clear it's original intent. Birthright citizenship is a privilege of legal residents. Illegal + illegal = legal? Irrational.
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Old 02-08-2012, 09:27 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,198,311 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Zona Stona View Post
America's ability to sustain it's people is being stretched to the breaking point. In the last 20 years we've paved over much arable land to build housing for our increasing population. We've outsourced the growing of our food to other countries because we no longer have the ability to grow it all ourselves. We've gone from an exporter of food to an importer. We've seen our prices for that food increase as a result. This results in a lower standard of living for ALL Americans.

It is my opinion that this nation needs an immigration 'time out'. A moratorium. We need to get our house in order and have a national discussion on where we want to go from here. We need that discussion to be HONEST, and for people who are easily offended to get over themselves. Legal immigration, once resumed, should be limited to no more than 200,000/year, based on ability. Family reunification should be limited to nuclear family only.

With the passage and signing of the new NDAA, posse comitatus is no longer the law of the land. While I disagree with it, it does give us the ability to use our military to lock down our borders and end the flood of illegal immigration into this country. We should do this YESTERDAY. We should also VIGOROUSLY enforce our current immigration and employment laws, and heavily fine AND JAIL those employers who ignore it.

We should deport ALL illegal aliens, regardless of nationality, when they are discovered in the course of normal law enforcement duties. US citizen children of illegal aliens may remain here if they have legal family to stay with, otherwise they should go with their parents. The 14th Amendment should be amended to make clear it's original intent. Birthright citizenship is a privilege of legal residents. Illegal + illegal = legal? Irrational.
Agree with your entire post. In keeping with this topic it isn't just about illegality but the sheer numbers of both illegal and legal immigration at a time where jobs and resources are scarce and our population is growing by leaps and bounds.

We need to curb illegal immigration as much as we can via the solutions you have mentioned. As for legal immigration we do need a "temporary" moratorium on legal immigation from "ALL" sending countries until our ecomomy improves and we get illegal immigration under control. After that, our legal immigration policies should keep diversity in mind by fair and equal quotas for all nationalities/ethnic groups. Why would anyone not want that or criticize anyone who desires this fairness? Seems to me that those who want to see continued migration from mostly one national/ethnic group are the ones with an agenda not those of us who just want to see more fairness.

At any rate none of the above makes me or anyone else that agrees with the policies above, anti-"immigrant" or anti-"one particular group". How can one be anti-a particular group if one is advocating that they get the same fair quotas as everyone else? Also, an anti-immigrant would be one who wants all immigration stopped "permanantly". I have no desire for that.
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Old 02-08-2012, 09:34 AM
 
Location: Lower east side of Toronto
10,589 posts, read 10,383,337 times
Reputation: 9273
There is a thing that the stupid and pushy self important United Nations adhere to...It's called "internal displacement" - There ideological goal is to push people out of their habitat...through unbridled immigration and migration - They actually think that if they interbreed the whole world into some sort of pale brown race that strife and racial conflict will stop...so they inflict this half baked ideology on America also - It is not the solution - people need walls - nations need boarders - families need a degree of seperation - it's called autonomy - dignity - and the opportunity for a nation (family) to create empires....The UN - hates empires and because THEY want to be the only empire - I say to hell with these interlopers - If an immigrant or migrant wants in - they had better be ready to become part of the family - we don't need disloyal intruders who are monitary opportunists..we need only those who will be LOYAL and true ...IF a person walks into your house - and does not want to contribute to the household as a whole - they are not welcome.
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Old 02-08-2012, 09:41 AM
 
Location: The middle of nowhere Arkansas
3,326 posts, read 2,630,792 times
Reputation: 1009
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Agree with your entire post. In keeping with this topic it isn't just about illegality but the sheer numbers of both illegal and legal immigration at a time where jobs and resources are scarce and our population is growing by leaps and bounds.

We need to curb illegal immigration as much as we can via the solutions you have mentioned. As for legal immigration we do need a "temporary" moratorium on legal immigation from "ALL" sending countries until our ecomomy improves and we get illegal immigration under control. After that, our legal immigration policies should keep diversity in mind by fair and equal quotas for all nationalities/ethnic groups. Why would anyone not want that or criticize anyone who desires this fairness? Seems to me that those who want to see continued migration from mostly one national/ethnic group are the ones with an agenda not those of us who just want to see more fairness.

At any rate none of the above makes me or anyone else that agrees with the policies above, anti-"immigrant" or anti-"one particular group". How can one be anti-a particular group if one is advocating that they get the same fair quotas as everyone else? Also, an anti-immigrant would be one who wants all immigration stopped "permanantly". I have no desire for that.
You aren't going to get what you want. The leadership of the democratic and republican parties, both from the same political class btw, want to mine our immigrants for votes.

The republican base is screaming for control of the border. Yet our erstwhile candidates mssrs gingrich and romney are all still about open borders.

It doesn't matter what you or I want. It's already too late. All you and I can do is prepare for the likely consequences; overloaded social services, third world diseases, lackluster performance in schools, added pressure on wages, greater and greater amounts of poverty, overloaded prisons, increased gang activity, and huge increases in taxes to pay for all of this glorious "diversity."
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Old 02-08-2012, 09:47 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,198,311 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Bach View Post
There is a thing that the stupid and pushy self important United Nations adhere to...It's called "internal displacement" - There ideological goal is to push people out of their habitat...through unbridled immigration and migration - They actually think that if they interbreed the whole world into some sort of pale brown race that strife and racial conflict will stop...so they inflict this half baked ideology on America also - It is not the solution - people need walls - nations need boarders - families need a degree of seperation - it's called autonomy - dignity - and the opportunity for a nation (family) to create empires....The UN - hates empires and because THEY want to be the only empire - I say to hell with these interlopers - If an immigrant or migrant wants in - they had better be ready to become part of the family - we don't need disloyal intruders who are monitary opportunists..we need only those who will be LOYAL and true ...IF a person walks into your house - and does not want to contribute to the household as a whole - they are not welcome.
I mostly agree with your post. I like the concept of each country having their own dominant culture and language. I have nothing against immigrants coming here "legally" of course in controlled numbers based on diversity so that assimilation to our culture and language occurs rather than the colonization of a group. They can retain their home country's culture and language at home if they so choose. However, come here to be American out in mainstream. In otherwords blend in don't stand out.

To remain a cohesive society and to retain our identity as a nation all of the above must occur. This holds true for all countries. When massive illegal immigration occurs and mostly from one ethnic group it just breaks down the cohesiveness of any nation.
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