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Old 01-17-2012, 07:03 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028

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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Why do you reference European, and with one exception, Western European, countries for your ideal immigrants? Aren't African, Asian, and Oriental countries equally deserving? Regional or national representation is not going to be unassailable in determining immigration criteria.

Put another way, your plan put into action several years back would have delayed (further) or denied the sponsorship of my wife and stepchildren to immigrate here. If I would have had a family from elsewhere, not so much. Why would you tell me as a servicemember (at that time) that I could be deployed to wars for this great country, but my family wasn't as welcome here?

What are you basing your "over-represented" judgement on? My family has blended in extremely well, my stepchildren are indistinguishable from U.S. citizen Hispanics coming from families here for generations. The potential English, Irish, Germans, and Italians immigrants could be barred through that same bad determination of being "over-represented" here as well.

Read that again, an outdated immigration policy based on ethnicity or nationality has not been in effect here since the Chinese Exclusion Act...

It's time for you guys to get into the 21st century with your proposals...

You didn't even answer my question if the child of a U.S. citizen and illegal alien could get U.S. citizenship if born here by your determinations...
Due to massive illegal immigration, we now have a disproportionate number of non-citizens from Spanish-speaking countries, namely, illegal aliens from Mexico. Consequently, Mexicans are overrepresented and other nationalities are now underrepresented. Yes, others should have a chance. If we are going to have an equitable immigration policy, we should offer immigration status to an equal number of nations.

Mexican nationals have selfishly stolen slots from others by ignoring our immigration laws. Now, they expect to be rewarded for their lawlessness with legalization and a path to citizenship, while others who have played by the rules wait in their homelands. If we have a moratorium on immigration, Mexico should be first on the list. If some "deserving" Mexicans are denied visas, they can blame their millions of countrymen who chose to violate our laws. Their numbers are unprecedented. Mexicans have a country. . . . MEXICO.
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Old 01-17-2012, 07:15 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,010,077 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
As for what countries are represented by the most immigrants both legal and illegal, here it is again. I think you can see which countries are under represented here.

Top 10 legal and illegal immigrant nationalities in the U.S. - OhMyGov News

IMO, just because someone has served in our military it should not put his foreign spouse or potential spouse in the front of the line of other potential immigrants that were waiting in their countries first. Some may disagree with me on that but that's alright. They are entitled to their opinion also. "Any" immigrant can blend in well if they so choose to do so and I would hope that they would. There is more to blending in (assimilation) then just learning our language and customs also and I am not pointing the finger at anyone by that remark. It is just a statement of truth.
But if my family has assimilated so well that they more resemble Hispanics that have generational ancestry in the United States, they are more "over-represented" here than an English immigrant (among the previously proffered ideal examples)? Isn't that saying that Hispanics are judged by a different standard? The English immigrant is (usually) "over-represented" by far more of the population of the United States than my family.

As for the military angle, consider that a Legal Permanent Resident servicemember only has to do a single military deployment to be eligible for (at no cost to them) U.S. citizenship within one year. That is faster and less-costly than the spouse of a U.S. citizen (minimum in most cases of three years, with petition fees) or other Legal Permanent Resident without military service (minimum of five years, with petition fees). Military service to the United States (especially for as long, and what, I did) should be rewarded.

Those Legal Permanent Resident servicemembers (and their families) are also instantly able to draw any government benefits, instead of having to wait five years in LPR status like other immigrants...

If my family wasn't ready for me to be deployed (by not being in the United States in a status where they wouldn't be removable if something happened to me), I wasn't ready to be deployed...
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Old 01-17-2012, 07:20 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,010,077 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
...Mexican nationals have selfishly stolen slots from others by ignoring our immigration laws...
Source that in your rationale, by contrasting it to what quotas would be available in other countries...
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Old 01-17-2012, 07:35 PM
 
8,063 posts, read 3,621,800 times
Reputation: 2449
The Funny thing about History is everyone just remembers whats good for them. Since I reside in PHX Az and made acoule trips to Tombstone/Tucson Area. Most of the country does not even have a clue. Becuase of Sheriff Jo & Sheriff paul Babeu (Maricopa Co. and Pimal Co) Arizona has save millions of dollars that would of gone to Illegle immgrants. They flood the schools and have the audicity to apply for Welfare. They think bearing a child on US Territory will afford them some special rights.
Its a matter of just up holding our cuurent laws and providing a better Visa Program that will encourge these folks to go to their country of origin.
For the Record the US Gov. Purchased NM AZ and Ca in 1854(Gladson Purchase) becuase of the Railroad that was to cut accross the US. Guess who Brokered the Deal?

Our Buddy General Santa Anna of the Mexican/american war of 1847. Santa Anna had the goal to rebuid the Mexicann Army and take control of the Central America. He did no one no favors except himself! What a Mexican Patriot!
I bet these open boarders guys don't talk about that.
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Old 01-17-2012, 07:35 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
But if my family has assimilated so well that they more resemble Hispanics that have generational ancestry in the United States, they are more "over-represented" here than an English immigrant (among the previously proffered ideal examples)? Isn't that saying that Hispanics are judged by a different standard? The English immigrant is (usually) "over-represented" by far more of the population of the United States than my family.

As for the military angle, consider that a Legal Permanent Resident servicemember only has to do a single military deployment to be eligible for (at no cost to them) U.S. citizenship within one year. That is faster and less-costly than the spouse of a U.S. citizen (minimum in most cases of three years, with petition fees) or other Legal Permanent Resident without military service (minimum of five years, with petition fees). Military service to the United States (especially for as long, and what, I did) should be rewarded.

Those Legal Permanent Resident servicemembers (and their families) are also instantly able to draw any government benefits, instead of having to wait five years in LPR status like other immigrants...

If my family wasn't ready for me to be deployed (by not being in the United States in a status where they wouldn't be removable if something happened to me), I wasn't ready to be deployed...
The English and others from European countries were the first immigrants and have been here for generations (including some from Spain) so therefore their descendants would naturally hold the majority in this country. The topic is about the current trend of immigration into our country both legally and illegally and what countries these "immigrants" are originating from "today". Mexico in particular is overrepresented. The first European immigrants came from many different countries on that continent, not just one.

Why mention Hispanics when we are talking about nationalities? Sure, Mexicans are Hispanics culturally but we are talking about countries right now, aren't we? However, when you combine all the legal/illegal immigrants from culturally Hispanic countries you would find the same result. They are over represented in todays immigration numbers as indicated by the link I provided.

I don't wish to trade barbs with you over military servicemen and what you think they should be entitled to based on their service. We will just have to agree to disagree on that.

I am also of the opinion that servicemen shouldn't be defending illegal aliens in our country and for granting them amnesty as they are intruders on our soil. Apparently we disagree on that also.

Last edited by chicagonut; 01-17-2012 at 07:47 PM..
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Old 01-17-2012, 08:49 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,010,077 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by GHOSTRIDER AZ View Post
The Funny thing about History is everyone just remembers whats good for them... ...For the Record the US Gov. Purchased NM AZ and Ca in 1854(Gladson Purchase) becuase of the Railroad that was to cut accross the US. Guess who Brokered the Deal?...
Rather that was the Gadsden Purchase...

And it was only for the most southern section of what became New Mexico (now 100 years old!) and Arizona, not California...

And that was after the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, which had the terms of any Mexicans within the acquired lands to be able to gain U.S. citizenship...

If we want to talk about brokering deals, I wonder if the United States would want to have influence of the 27% of Mexico they had ownership of before the Mexican Revolution?...

If you are going to remember history, remember it correctly...
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Old 01-17-2012, 08:55 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Rather that was the Gadsden Purchase...

And it was only for the most southern section of what became New Mexico (now 100 years old!) and Arizona, not California...

And that was after the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, which had the terms of any Mexicans within the acquired lands to be able to gain U.S. citizenship...

If we want to talk about brokering deals, I wonder if the United States would want to have influence of the 27% of Mexico they had ownership of before the Mexican Revolution?...

If you are going to remember history, remember it correctly...
Those Mexicans were given the choice to become U.S. citizens or to remain Mexican citizens. Some chose the former and some chose the latter.
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Old 01-17-2012, 08:56 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,282,218 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Why do you reference European, and with one exception, Western European, countries for your ideal immigrants? Aren't African, Asian, and Oriental countries equally deserving? Regional or national representation is not going to be unassailable in determining immigration criteria.

Put another way, your plan put into action several years back would have delayed (further) or denied the sponsorship of my wife and stepchildren to immigrate here. If I would have had a family from elsewhere, not so much. Why would you tell me as a servicemember (at that time) that I could be deployed to wars for this great country, but my family wasn't as welcome here?

What are you basing your "over-represented" judgement on? My family has blended in extremely well, my stepchildren are indistinguishable from U.S. citizen Hispanics coming from families here for generations. The potential English, Irish, German, and Italian immigrants could be barred through that same bad determination of being "over-represented" here as well.

Read that again, an outdated immigration policy based on ethnicity or nationality has not been in effect here since the Chinese Exclusion Act...

It's time for you guys to get into the 21st century with your proposals...

You didn't even answer my question if the child of a U.S. citizen and illegal alien could get U.S. citizenship if born here by your determinations...
Why not? MOST of us are of English, Irish, German, Nigerian, etc. heritage and there's nothing wrong in keeping our main culture. I'm also fine with people getting preference from former US territories like Cuba and the Philippines.

I answered your question about a kid born to ONE illegal alien and an American, that kid would get American citizenship on the spot.
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Old 01-17-2012, 09:01 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,282,218 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Rather that was the Gadsden Purchase...

And it was only for the most southern section of what became New Mexico (now 100 years old!) and Arizona, not California...

And that was after the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, which had the terms of any Mexicans within the acquired lands to be able to gain U.S. citizenship...

If we want to talk about brokering deals, I wonder if the United States would want to have influence of the 27% of Mexico they had ownership of before the Mexican Revolution?...

If you are going to remember history, remember it correctly...
It doesn't matter; we owe Mexico nothing over something that happened before any of us were born. Funny how many of the "Mexicans" in California, Az and so on decided to become American than go to post 1848 Mexico. Maybe those people knew something and Mexico wasn't it.
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Old 01-17-2012, 09:06 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
Why not? MOST of us are of English, Irish, German, Nigerian, etc. heritage and there's nothing wrong in keeping our main culture. I'm also fine with people getting preference from former US territories like Cuba and the Philippines.

I answered your question about a kid born to ONE illegal alien and an American, that kid would get American citizenship on the spot.
For some strange reason in some people's views the U.S. shouldn't be allowed to retain its dominant demographic makeup, culture and language but for other countries it is ok. I never could understand that. Those same people are usually advocates for illegal aliens and that definately will alter our identity if allowed to continue. It almost seems that is the outcome they desire.
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