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Are they attacking the Constitution (not the ship, the paper)?...
We've come out of any policy based on ethnicity in the modern age. Why not just say a certain ethnicity may use welfare more than others, or lives too condensed in one area, and needs to be "evened up"? You're toying with the notion of change based on what you think is right, and basing that decision on ethnicity.
I'll say it again, either ALL immigration needs to stop, or to continue like it is. Your Affirmative Action Immigration policy hasn't been done since the Chinese Exclusion Act. It isn't your part to determine what the face of the United States will be.
What do you mean "are they attacking the Constitution"? They are violating our immigration laws and therefore trespassing on our soil. That isn't enough to call them the enemy? Trespassing on our soil by the millions is an invasion. The military and other government enities are sworn to protect us from that, not advocate for it.
Why does all immigration have to end if we advocate for a diverse immigrant population? That isn't Affirmative Action. In fact that is treating them equally. Affirmative Action treats one group special and that is what you seem to be advocating for by advocating for the continued large quotas of Mexican and other Latino immigrants.
Again, I am for diversity in our immigration quotas. If you can't understand that is what this country is all about then I don't know what to tell you. No where did I say that any ethnicity should be excluded from welfare if they qualify.
Who is being excluded? How does making our quotas fair to all immigrants equate to exclusion? You're not making any sense here.
So, I can't express and opinion on this issue or I am deciding all by myself the way it is going to be? Aren't you doing the same thing then?
What do you mean "are they attacking the Constitution"? They are violating our immigration laws and therefore trespassing on our soil. That isn't enough to call them the enemy? Trespassing on our soil by the millions is an invasion. The military and other government enities are sworn to protect us from that, not advocate for it.
Why does all immigration have to end if we advocate for a diverse immigrant population? That isn't Affirmative Action. In fact that is treating them equally. Affirmative Action treats one group special and that is what you seem to be advocating for by advocating for the continued large quotas of Mexican and other Latino immigrants.
Again, I am for diversity in our immigration quotas. If you can't understand that is what this country is all about then I don't know what to tell you. No where did I say that any ethnicity should be excluded from welfare if they qualify.
Who is being excluded? How does making our quotas fair to all immigrants equate to exclusion? You're not making any sense here.
So, I can't express and opinion on this issue or I am deciding all by myself the way it is going to be? Aren't you doing the same thing then?
Let's see your model. How is it you propose to divide it up? What standard? Your model is not going to fly if it is simply "less spainish speakers".
I'd like to see more immigration threads that discuss raw overpopulation and the limited physical carrying-capacity of the Earth, which many people (especially the religious Right) are willfully ignorant about. They assume some magic deity will create endless greener pastures or override the geology of peak oil production, EROEI, etc.
Does anyone think the U.S. can sustain its historical quality of life if we keep adding upwards of 3 million people each year to a land that already has chronic water and energy shortages, growing traffic jams and lack of basic elbow room in popular areas?
Apologetic arguments about fitting everyone in Texas are ludicrous. The math doesn't work, and they ignore the fact that people flock to the most ideal locations (e.g. California) and crowd the heck out of them. Nor should we aim to fill every last habitable acre with people just because we might be able to pull it off with some future technology.
When will we have a serious plan to preserve quality of life, not just quantity? That applies to the whole economy with its emphasis on production quotas and sheeple stumbling through malls buying stuff that other people make. Endless population growth creates a situation where people literally leech off each other to maintain the whole pyramid scheme. Buy, buy, buy! (even if you don't need the junk)
The U.S. was plenty full with 200 million people in 1967. The 300 million mark in 2006 was no milestone to celebrate, nor should 400 or 500 million be, if it comes to that (few people are trying to stop it). There was never a contract with nature that assured jobs, food and housing for all those people at typical U.S. standards of living. We're already seeing the folly of that dream but many people can't grasp the root causes.
I think the focus on "illegal immigration" vs. reckless increases in legal immigration are a distraction from the bigger quality of life issue.
I personally don't care about the population of the U.S. I think we can live sustainably even if our population hits 400 million. However, we will have to reassess what the 'American Dream' really is, and we will have to learn to live within our means. Being the culture of abundance that we are, we've become spoiled, but competition between nations will reward those societies which learn how to best conserve and adjust to ever-changing supplies of resources. America's behind in this regard -- by some.
It doesn't matter; we owe Mexico nothing over something that happened before any of us were born. Funny how many of the "Mexicans" in California, Az and so on decided to become American than go to post 1848 Mexico. Maybe those people knew something and Mexico wasn't it.
In the amount of time anyone has lived on N America the sliver of time Mexico had anyone living on what is now the United States is about a nanosecond.
Source that in your rationale, by contrasting it to what quotas would be available in other countries...
This isn't rocket science. Who, other than Mexicans, have entered this country illegally in such huge numbers that they now account for the majority of births in many regions? Do you actually believe their massive numbers have not been a factor in the overall issuance of visas to other nations? After all, we can't admit the entire world. Who knows how many have been forced to wait due to this unprecedented phenomenon.
Legal immigrants are also "non-citizens" (until they would naturalize). What does "Spanish-speaking" have to do with it? Isn't it a matter of the illegality of an illegal alien?.
Yes, it is a matter of illegality. And, the majority of illegal aliens speak Spanish. That's the relevance of having a disproportionate number of "Spanish-speaking" non-citizens, most whom are here in violation of our laws.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum
Immigration quotas (in visa categories that have them) don't transfer to affect other countries. Illegal aliens are also not "stealing" quota numbers or immigration "slots" from any potential immigrant, no matter which country they are from. Potential immigrants have an ability to be sponsored or not, only depending on who they might be.
Illegal aliens have indeed stolen slots. Aren't you one who constantly whines about them only having an opportunity to live in this country illegally, because our "unfair" immigration policies deny them visas to enter legally?
Are they attacking the Constitution (not the ship, the paper)?...
We've come out of any policy based on ethnicity in the modern age. Why not just say a certain ethnicity may use welfare more than others, or lives too condensed in one area, and needs to be "evened up"? You're toying with the notion of change based on what you think is right, and basing that decision on ethnicity.
I'll say it again, either ALL immigration needs to stop, or to continue like it is. Your Affirmative Action Immigration policy hasn't been done since the Chinese Exclusion Act. It isn't your part to determine what the face of the United States will be.
No, ALL immigration does not need to stop. We simply need to stop the invasion from Mexico. Why should others be denied an opportunity to live in this country due to the criminal behavior of the citizens from one nation? Mexico has sent more than their share of "immigrants" to the US. Yes, we need a moratorium until this mess can be resolved. A mess created by the dumping of untold millions of Mexican citizens onto U.S. soil to procreate at the speed of light; and our corrupt and inept government that facilitated the invasion by refusing to enforce our laws and secure our border.
...Illegal aliens have indeed stolen slots. Aren't you one who constantly whines about them only having an opportunity to live in this country illegally, because our "unfair" immigration policies deny them visas to enter legally?
So, using other Mexicans as an example of not being able to immigrate, while saying immigration should be limited specifically from Mexico? It doesn't work that way, a Mexican (or any other Foreign National) does not gain an ability to immigrate purely because some other Mexican would not come legally. Two-thirds of all immigrants have an Immediate Relative relationship to a U.S. citizen (largely without quotas), the other third are almost all employment-based. The Diversity Visa Program is limited to 50,000 per year, and is not able to be used from Mexico (among many other countries) because of high legal immigration rates.
In fact, odds are higher from a country able to host the Diversity Visa Program that a potential immigrant with no other qualifications could immigrate legally to the United States...
There is a failure here to even understand the legal immigration system, and those mistaken beliefs are affecting the perspective to illegal immigration...
So, using other Mexicans as an example of not being able to immigrate, while saying immigration should be limited specifically from Mexico? It doesn't work that way, a Mexican (or any other Foreign National) does not gain an ability to immigrate purely because some other Mexican would not come legally. Two-thirds of all immigrants have an Immediate Relative relationship to a U.S. citizen (largely without quotas), the other third are almost all employment-based. The Diversity Visa Program is limited to 50,000 per year, and is not able to be used from Mexico (among many other countries) because of high legal immigration rates.
In fact, odds are higher from a country able to host the Diversity Visa Program that a potential immigrant with no other qualifications could immigrate legally to the United States...
There is a failure here to even understand the legal immigration system, and those mistaken beliefs are affecting the perspective to illegal immigration...
Since it is a fact that those of Mexican ancestry are the largest minority group in this country that in itself gives them an advantage to sponser their relatives over others. That is what is unfair. It negates our policy of being a diverse nation of immigrants. Why would Mexicans need diversity quotas based on the above? Didn't you read the link I provided in here several times as to which countries represent the highest number of immigrants here both legally and illegally?
Since it is a fact that those of Mexican ancestry are the largest minority group in this country that in itself gives them an advantage to sponser their relatives over others. That is what is unfair. It negates our policy of being a diverse nation of immigrants. Why would Mexicans need diversity quotas based on the above? Didn't you read the link I provided in here several times as to which countries represent the highest number of immigrants here both legally and illegally?
Huh? Hispanics are a minority in the United States, but that is not synonymous to having "Mexican" ancestry. And as argued (50 million, anyone?), the illegal alien population segment are not U.S. citizens or Legal Permanent Residents, and thus unable to sponsor their relatives to come here.
The higher you place the illegal alien population to be (and the portion comprised by Mexicans), the more it affects your argument that Mexicans are able to sponsor their relatives. I think that kind of irrational logic blew up an evil robot on Star Trek. How can you ever resolve it within the same person?
With some of the numbers I see thrown around here, Blacks would then become the largest U.S. citizen minority able to sponsor any immigrant relatives (with a chance of still being of a Mexican nationality). Is that happening? Does it disbar them from doing so under your failed reasoning?
Tonight I took a break to visit my 95 year-old Grandmother...
I found her perspective to be refreshing modern, and still having better reasoning skills, compared to what I see at large here...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar
This isn't rocket science. Who, other than Mexicans, have entered this country illegally in such huge numbers that they now account for the majority of births in many regions? Do you actually believe their massive numbers have not been a factor in the overall issuance of visas to other nations? After all, we can't admit the entire world. Who knows how many have been forced to wait due to this unprecedented phenomenon.
What part of most of the two-thirds of immigrants not having any quotas are you not picking up? Illegal aliens have an extremely limited international impact on immigrant visas being issued in a country other than Mexico, because they would not (A) disrupt the relationship to a potential U.S. citizen sponsor (unless it is an example of a citizen marrying Korean when they can't marry an illegal alien Mexican), or (B) disrupt employment-based visa hiring by companies (those quotas are fully sourced each year anyway).
The "entire world" (you're going to win 'Immigration Bingo') largely lacks the potential to be sponsored for legal immigration, so they are not being blocked, much less by an illegal alien...
Whom here are still believing that Joe Random Nationality can somehow file the equivalent of an I-130 on their own, where it just becomes a wait in some "line"?...
If you do, find it on the USCIS website for me...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar
...Aren't you one who constantly whines about them only having an opportunity to live in this country illegally, because our "unfair" immigration policies deny them visas to enter legally?
Errmm, find such a "whine"...
Last edited by Yac; 01-19-2012 at 01:57 AM..
Reason: 3 posts in a row merged
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