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Old 01-11-2012, 05:05 PM
 
981 posts, read 1,846,924 times
Reputation: 1387

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I'd like to see more immigration threads that discuss raw overpopulation and the limited physical carrying-capacity of the Earth, which many people (especially the religious Right) are willfully ignorant about. They assume some magic deity will create endless greener pastures or override the geology of peak oil production, EROEI, etc.

Does anyone think the U.S. can sustain its historical quality of life if we keep adding upwards of 3 million people each year to a land that already has chronic water and energy shortages, growing traffic jams and lack of basic elbow room in popular areas?

Apologetic arguments about fitting everyone in Texas are ludicrous. The math doesn't work, and they ignore the fact that people flock to the most ideal locations (e.g. California) and crowd the heck out of them. Nor should we aim to fill every last habitable acre with people just because we might be able to pull it off with some future technology.

When will we have a serious plan to preserve quality of life, not just quantity? That applies to the whole economy with its emphasis on production quotas and sheeple stumbling through malls buying stuff that other people make. Endless population growth creates a situation where people literally leech off each other to maintain the whole pyramid scheme. Buy, buy, buy! (even if you don't need the junk)

The U.S. was plenty full with 200 million people in 1967. The 300 million mark in 2006 was no milestone to celebrate, nor should 400 or 500 million be, if it comes to that (few people are trying to stop it). There was never a contract with nature that assured jobs, food and housing for all those people at typical U.S. standards of living. We're already seeing the folly of that dream but many people can't grasp the root causes.

I think the focus on "illegal immigration" vs. reckless increases in legal immigration are a distraction from the bigger quality of life issue.
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Old 01-11-2012, 05:14 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,011,547 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca_north View Post
I'd like to see more immigration threads that discuss raw overpopulation and the limited physical carrying-capacity of the Earth, which many people (especially the religious Right) are willfully ignorant about. They assume some magic deity will create endless greener pastures or override the geology of peak oil production, EROEI, etc.

Does anyone think the U.S. can sustain its historical quality of life if we keep adding upwards of 3 million people each year to a land that already has chronic water and energy shortages, growing traffic jams and lack of basic elbow room in popular areas?

Apologetic arguments about fitting everyone in Texas are ludicrous. The math doesn't work, and they ignore the fact that people flock to the most ideal locations (e.g. California) and crowd the heck out of them. Nor should we aim to fill every last habitable acre with people just because we might be able to pull it off with some future technology.

When will we have a serious plan to preserve quality of life, not just quantity? That applies to the whole economy with its emphasis on production quotas and sheeple stumbling through malls buying stuff that other people make. Endless population growth creates a situation where people literally leech off each other to maintain the whole pyramid scheme. Buy, buy, buy! (even if you don't need the junk)

The U.S. was plenty full with 200 million people in 1967. The 300 million mark in 2006 was no milestone to celebrate, nor should 400 or 500 million be, if it comes to that (few people are trying to stop it). There was never a contract with nature that assured jobs, food and housing for all those people at typical U.S. standards of living. We're already seeing the folly of that dream but many people can't grasp the root causes.

I think the focus on "illegal immigration" vs. reckless increases in legal immigration are a distraction from the bigger quality of life issue.
There is a majority of native-born and legally immigrating peoples in your three million a year data, so maybe this needs to go one forum level above...
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Old 01-11-2012, 05:33 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,149,569 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca_north View Post
I'd like to see more immigration threads that discuss raw overpopulation and the limited physical carrying-capacity of the Earth, which many people (especially the religious Right) are willfully ignorant about. They assume some magic deity will create endless greener pastures or override the geology of peak oil production, EROEI, etc.

Does anyone think the U.S. can sustain its historical quality of life if we keep adding upwards of 3 million people each year to a land that already has chronic water and energy shortages, growing traffic jams and lack of basic elbow room in popular areas?

Apologetic arguments about fitting everyone in Texas are ludicrous. The math doesn't work, and they ignore the fact that people flock to the most ideal locations (e.g. California) and crowd the heck out of them. Nor should we aim to fill every last habitable acre with people just because we might be able to pull it off with some future technology.

When will we have a serious plan to preserve quality of life, not just quantity? That applies to the whole economy with its emphasis on production quotas and sheeple stumbling through malls buying stuff that other people make. Endless population growth creates a situation where people literally leech off each other to maintain the whole pyramid scheme. Buy, buy, buy! (even if you don't need the junk)

The U.S. was plenty full with 200 million people in 1967. The 300 million mark in 2006 was no milestone to celebrate, nor should 400 or 500 million be, if it comes to that (few people are trying to stop it). There was never a contract with nature that assured jobs, food and housing for all those people at typical U.S. standards of living. We're already seeing the folly of that dream but many people can't grasp the root causes.

I think the focus on "illegal immigration" vs. reckless increases in legal immigration are a distraction from the bigger quality of life issue.
Finally, a sane voice among the "let em all in" loonies! I agree with you 100%! There is such a thing as the carrying capacity of a country. It isn't based on how much land there is but the availability of natural resources and social infractructures to sustain a given population aka ariable land space and maintain a quality of life. Here is a website that I hope still exists that explains it well: susps.org. There was a gumball one that explained it well also. I will try to dig that one up.

Uncontrolled illegal immigration and too much legal immigration will destroy a country. It also dilutes if not erases the identifying demographics, culture and language of a country.

Thank you for your intelligent thoughts. Wish there were more Americans who would stop looking at this country with tunnel vision for the future and realize how uncontrolled immigration will affect our country and quality of life down the road.
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Old 01-11-2012, 05:37 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,149,569 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
There is a majority of native-born and legally immigrating peoples in your three million a year data, so maybe this needs to go one forum level above...
Why? He is discussing the negativities of illegal immigration also. We allow in over a million legal immigrants per year and God knows how many illegals are entering every year. We can't sustain such population growth anymore.
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Old 01-11-2012, 05:58 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,887,954 times
Reputation: 6517
Ill cover the standard excuses.
1. But they are poor
2. But we stole the land from Mexico
3. But they only do jobs americans are too lazy to do
4. They are good for the economy
5. Oh I almost forgot we owe them
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Old 01-11-2012, 09:26 PM
 
373 posts, read 488,708 times
Reputation: 192
compare the issue to locust.. A few thousand are not going to hurt but a few hundred million will pick the place clean and then move on....THUS the reason we have immigration number control and laws...
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Old 01-11-2012, 09:45 PM
 
Location: Native Floridian, USA
4,896 posts, read 5,867,686 times
Reputation: 6050
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Finally, a sane voice among the "let em all in" loonies! I agree with you 100%! There is such a thing as the carrying capacity of a country. It isn't based on how much land there is but the availability of natural resources and social infractructures to sustain a given population aka ariable land space and maintain a quality of life. Here is a website that I hope still exists that explains it well: susps.org. There was a gumball one that explained it well also. I will try to dig that one up.

Uncontrolled illegal immigration and too much legal immigration will destroy a country. It also dilutes if not erases the identifying demographics, culture and language of a country.

Thank you for your intelligent thoughts. Wish there were more Americans who would stop looking at this country with tunnel vision for the future and realize how uncontrolled immigration will affect our country and quality of life down the road.
this and the previous post are excellent ! I wish more people would read this.....
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Old 01-11-2012, 11:19 PM
 
Location: Earth
313 posts, read 274,070 times
Reputation: 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Uncontrolled illegal immigration and too much legal immigration will destroy a country. It also dilutes if not erases the identifying demographics, culture and language of a country.
I wonder what the Native Americans think of all this....

I feel for any indigenous peoples from any continent. America is a much different place than when the Natives had a hold of it. America became a melting pot with an amorphous culture. It's not like France or Nigeria, 2 countries that were not founded on immigration by foreigners of different cultural/phenotypical backgrounds.

Americas demographics is always going to change because that's what America is. The culture will always evolve and that's what makes it so powerful. Just like the European renaissance where Europeans borrowed the best from many outside cultures to plant and harvest.

The difference is that Europe was supposed to change in the arts and sciences but not by replacing it's people or losing it's most distinctive cultural features.

America on the other hand has always been a racially and culturally freeform country with a very basic(but awesome) moralistic/political canvas to expand on.

So when the demographics change one can not complain.
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Old 01-11-2012, 11:47 PM
 
3,849 posts, read 3,162,024 times
Reputation: 2451
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Ill cover the standard excuses.
1. But they are poor
2. But we stole the land from Mexico
3. But they only do jobs americans are too lazy to do
4. They are good for the economy
5. Oh I almost forgot we owe them
6 . The delusion that Blacks, Whites, Asians and others are incapable of hard work, mowing lawns, babysitting, picking crops and cleaning ( something that these groups have done since the beginning of time)
7. That Illegals have built everything ( reminds me of Gilligan's Island where they built everything except a boat to sail back, If this is the case .Why don't they build a better Mexico ???)

Better yet instead of a Day without an Illegal Mexican, next time try a future without them.

Last time they tried this BS in Calif. the freeways were less congested and the stores were less crowded. Sounds like a winning strategy !!!

The only difference was that they lost money, while everything was better.

BTW how many Aztecs were named Sanchez, Garcia, Gonzalez and Perez ?
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Old 01-12-2012, 04:02 AM
 
2,243 posts, read 3,448,826 times
Reputation: 2118
I agree with the OP, and the OP's post is why I don't even bother with illegal immigration discussions anymore -- for me it's about ALL immigration, not just who happens to have "legal" paperwork from a corrupt, illegal federal government.

Enough is enough -- I don't care who was here first, who thinks they're owed something because of something that happened before they were even born, having more ethnic restaurants, creating a world model of "diversity" -- all that crap is degrading the quality of life in this nation by the day.

And yes, some of my ancestors probably did come over on the Mayflower and I do think some aspects of eugenics are very sensible. Don't like it? Then please leave the nation of infrastructure my ancestors built, and which was handed down to people like me so that we can enjoy it, act as stewards, and hopefully improve it for the next generation (which should not include those of you who simply want to overwrite what's already been colonized, making the host population miserable as they see their legacy squandered).
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