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Old 01-11-2012, 08:19 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,712,641 times
Reputation: 299

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The three had worked as farm and ranch laborers for dairies and had received injuries in the course and scope of their employments. They sought workers' compensation benefits but the cases were dismissed under the 1917 law.


Judge Huling, finding the distinction between farm workers and dairy workers capricious and arbitrary, took on big ag business in the state noting in her opinion that the agricultural industry has reported average profits of $667 million over the past eight years, yet eliminating the exclusion would require coverage for about 10,000 workers, and the cost of providing workers' compensation insurance to the additional employees would be between $5 million and $7 million, less than 1% of annual profits.
Working Immigrants: Immigrant farm workers in New Mexico given a legal boost

NOTE: This also effects illegal alien workers.

Many, many implications in this article.
Quote:
New Mexico 2nd Judicial District Judge Valerie Huling said Dec. 27 in an opinion in Griego et al. v. New Mexico Workers' Compensation Administration that agriculture is the only industry allowed to shift the burden of injured workers onto taxpayers by not providing workers' compensation coverage.
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Old 01-12-2012, 10:22 AM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,386,453 times
Reputation: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
Working Immigrants: Immigrant farm workers in New Mexico given a legal boost

NOTE: This also effects illegal alien workers.

Many, many implications in this article.
ALL employment of illegals does that sort of cost shifting. Once you break a major law many people have no problem with breaking other laws. So an illegal who breaks our immigration laws has no problem with breaking our employment laws and driving on our roads without permission. Someone who employs the illegal has no problem with breaking other employment laws when hiring him. It all helps to undermine hard won employee protections as well as the rule of law overall.
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Old 01-12-2012, 10:46 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,887,954 times
Reputation: 6517
Would we pay workmans comp to a car jacker injured while jacking cars?
Would we pay workmans comp to a bank robber shot while robbing a bank?
I dont think so.
In the case of illegals using ID fraud or working under the table. They don't pay in. In other words they didnt buy any insurance.
As for the profits of the dairy/ ag business.
Many confuse the profits of the dairy with those of the farmer. The average Dairy farmer is struggling to pay his bills.
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Old 01-12-2012, 11:35 AM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,712,641 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Would we pay workmans comp to a car jacker injured while jacking cars?
Would we pay workmans comp to a bank robber shot while robbing a bank?
I dont think so.
In the case of illegals using ID fraud or working under the table. They don't pay in. In other words they didnt buy any insurance.
As for the profits of the dairy/ ag business.
Many confuse the profits of the dairy with those of the farmer. The average Dairy farmer is struggling to pay his bills.
I usually like your comments, but this comment implies something that I don't think you intended. Who is "they" you are referring to? Workers Comp is paid by the employer and is not deducted from the workers paycheck.

I believe this to be the crux of the dairy problem.
Quote:
the consumer price for milk has remained largely the same. That's because, unlike other commodities, the price of milk paid to a farmer is completely unrelated to the price paid by a consumer at the grocery store, and it is not based on the cost of production. The price of milk is dictated by the Chicago Mercantile Exchange, which has a reputation for being manipulated into charging consumers more and paying farmers less. Corruption, price gouging, and anti-trust violations by the nation's biggest dairy cooperatives, processors and food companies have resulted in artificially low prices of shattering proportions and an industry known in great part for its volatility.

Last edited by Liquid Reigns; 01-12-2012 at 12:07 PM..
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Old 01-12-2012, 03:34 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,887,954 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
I usually like your comments, but this comment implies something that I don't think you intended. Who is "they" you are referring to? Workers Comp is paid by the employer and is not deducted from the workers paycheck.

I believe this to be the crux of the dairy problem.
I stand corrected. But my questions remain the same. Would we pay work comp for other criminals injured while committing a crime?
I would hope not.
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Old 01-13-2012, 01:40 PM
 
387 posts, read 270,806 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
I stand corrected. But my questions remain the same. Would we pay work comp for other criminals injured while committing a crime?
I would hope not.
Workiing is not a crime. There may be a crime committed in getting the job...but that does not make the job criminal. I believe all attempts to make an illegal working criminal have failed. LR would likely know.

And some manipulations getting to phoney SS numbers have been ruled not illegal by the USSC.
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Old 01-13-2012, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,887,954 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
Workiing is not a crime. There may be a crime committed in getting the job...but that does not make the job criminal. I believe all attempts to make an illegal working criminal have failed. LR would likely know.

And some manipulations getting to phoney SS numbers have been ruled not illegal by the USSC.
should wc be granted to people committing fraud? How about using fraud?
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Old 01-13-2012, 04:09 PM
 
387 posts, read 270,806 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
should wc be granted to people committing fraud? How about using fraud?
Crimes have specific punishments. You don't get to make them up as you go along.

And I think you are missing the real problem here. An illegal gets badly hurt working and has no WC. Who gets the cost?
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Old 01-13-2012, 06:22 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,712,641 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
Workiing is not a crime. There may be a crime committed in getting the job...but that does not make the job criminal. I believe all attempts to make an illegal working criminal have failed. LR would likely know.

And some manipulations getting to phoney SS numbers have been ruled not illegal by the USSC.
The U.S. Supreme Court held that a Mexican man who gave a false SSN to get a job at an Illinois steel plant could not be convicted under federal identity theft laws because he did not knowingly use another person's identifying number.
Quote:
The suspect in the case, Ignacio Flores-Figueroa, presented a Social Security card with his name but a false SSN -- the number turned out to belong to a minor -- so he could work at steel plant in East Moline, Ill. He was convicted of immigration offenses and aggravated identity theft and given a 75-month jail sentence, including a two-year enhancement for the federal ID theft charge. His success in the Supreme Court reduced his sentence by 24 months. He is still subject to deportation when he finishes serving his time.
So it appears that it is not an offense to use an SS# (9 made up numbers) as long as you use your own name with the number, even if the made up 9 numbers end up matching someone's real number.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
should wc be granted to people committing fraud? How about using fraud?
Workers Comp is insurance coverage for the worker paid for by the employer. If the employer fails to have WC then the hurt employee can sue and win in most cases. The buck is than passed even more so to the consumer from that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
Crimes have specific punishments. You don't get to make them up as you go along.
Being here illegally means deportation, knowingly hiring someone who is illegal is more or less a fine, having employees without having WC is simply a fine to the employer and usually after the second offense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
And I think you are missing the real problem here. An illegal gets badly hurt working and has no WC. Who gets the cost?
It gets passed on to the consumer in most cases, even more so since Insurance isn't covering it.

Last edited by Liquid Reigns; 01-13-2012 at 06:52 PM..
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Old 01-13-2012, 07:19 PM
 
387 posts, read 270,806 times
Reputation: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
The U.S. Supreme Court held that a Mexican man who gave a false SSN to get a job at an Illinois steel plant could not be convicted under federal identity theft laws because he did not knowingly use another person's identifying number.
So it appears that it is not an offense to use an SS# (9 made up numbers) as long as you use your own name with the number, even if the made up 9 numbers end up matching someone's real number.
Workers Comp is insurance coverage for the worker paid for by the employer. If the employer fails to have WC then the hurt employee can sue and win in most cases. The buck is than passed even more so to the consumer from that.

Being here illegally means deportation, knowingly hiring someone who is illegal is more or less a fine, having employees without having WC is simply a fine to the employer and usually after the second offense.

It gets passed on to the consumer in most cases, even more so since Insurance isn't covering it.
Hmmm second time I read this it is better than the first time.

Now we have an off the book employee. Who does he work for? Want to bet he is not an independent contractor employee of subcontractor Gomez who is the one who could be sued but has no money? You are not aware that these things are often set up so the actual employer is free of liability?

Then who pays? Why the damaged illegal goes to the emergency room and...well you know how that plays out.

Being here illegally can mean being deported. It can also be resolved without deportation as is likely in this case. There is no statutory requirement to deport such a person.

That knowingly part of the requirement for an offense is a really big shield. Prove he knew.
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