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Old 01-18-2012, 05:21 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028

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Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
Not applicable. Does not have obvious contact with the public and is not law in around half the states.
I'm not sure what you think a homeowner is if not "the public." Furthermore, anyone the employee harms while on the job -- a coworker, vendor, customer, etc. can sue for negligent hiring. Let a worker with a prior rape conviction sent to a home by a contractor commit a rape at that residence, and you will see who in addition to the rapist will pay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
I am not aware that criminal felons are a protected class. Ethnic minorities are. And if a set of legal Spanish speakers got left out of a big job...here comes the suit.

I am skeptical that one could defend an English only requirement unless you could get an expert opinion that it was a bonafide job requirement.

Access to the contract is easy. It is called disclosure.
For the final time, a homeowner is not the employer of the workers, and is not bound by EEO laws. I can deny ANY worker entry to my house for ANY reason, including legal Spanish-speakers. End of story.
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Old 01-18-2012, 09:27 PM
 
387 posts, read 270,626 times
Reputation: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
I'm not sure what you think a homeowner is if not "the public." Furthermore, anyone the employee harms while on the job -- a coworker, vendor, customer, etc. can sue for negligent hiring. Let a worker with a prior rape conviction sent to a home by a contractor commit a rape at that residence, and you will see who in addition to the rapist will pay.
Practically if someones gets raped by a worker the contractor has a big problem regardless of past felonies. Negligent hiring exists in only half the states.

A roofer however is not considered a worker who deals with the public.


Quote:
For the final time, a homeowner is not the employer of the workers, and is not bound by EEO laws. I can deny ANY worker entry to my house for ANY reason, including legal Spanish-speakers. End of story.
It makes no difference how many times you say it. The contractor cannot discriminate against foreign language speaker without a bonafide business reason, and, if he does so at the behest of a client they will both get sued.

Even more interesting the contractor can't discriminate against an illegal even though it is illegal to hire him. Once hired though he is protected by the same EEO laws as a native.
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Old 01-18-2012, 10:06 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,711,425 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
Even more interesting the contractor can't discriminate against an illegal even though it is illegal to hire him. Once hired though he is protected by the same EEO laws as a native.
Once the employer verifies that the employee is indeed illegal or the State has laws that allows one to fire for any reason, he can be fired with no EEO violations, it's called "at will" employee. Your arguments fall under the "protected classes" of EEO, which is just that, specific to only certain things. Wrongful Termination Laws: Illegal Reasons - FindLaw

Illegal aliens can be fired at any time once they are determined to be. A homeowner has rights as well, they can state upfront that if illegals are found on the site teh Contractor will be terminated and the contract null and void, or to not bother showing up if they hire illegals. There is no EEO violations by the homeowner.

Last edited by Liquid Reigns; 01-18-2012 at 10:14 PM..
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Old 01-19-2012, 09:19 AM
 
387 posts, read 270,626 times
Reputation: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
Once the employer verifies that the employee is indeed illegal or the State has laws that allows one to fire for any reason, he can be fired with no EEO violations, it's called "at will" employee. Your arguments fall under the "protected classes" of EEO, which is just that, specific to only certain things. Wrongful Termination Laws: Illegal Reasons - FindLaw

Illegal aliens can be fired at any time once they are determined to be. A homeowner has rights as well, they can state upfront that if illegals are found on the site teh Contractor will be terminated and the contract null and void, or to not bother showing up if they hire illegals. There is no EEO violations by the homeowner.
From EEOC enforcement manual...

Title VII, the Age Discrimination in Employment Act, the Americans with Disabilities Act, and the Equal Pay Act (the EEO statutes) prohibit discrimination against employees who work in the United States for covered employers, regardless of citizenship(60) or work authorization. While federal law prohibits employers from employing individuals lacking work authorization, employers who nonetheless employ undocumented workers are prohibited from discriminating against those workers

You can fire them but you can't discriminate...
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Old 01-19-2012, 12:47 PM
 
373 posts, read 488,474 times
Reputation: 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
From EEOC enforcement manual...

Title VII, the Age Discrimination in Employment Act, the Americans with Disabilities Act, and the Equal Pay Act (the EEO statutes) prohibit discrimination against employees who work in the United States for covered employers, regardless of citizenship(60) or work authorization. While federal law prohibits employers from employing individuals lacking work authorization, employers who nonetheless employ undocumented workers are prohibited from discriminating against those workers

You can fire them but you can't discriminate...
Yea just FIRE the employer, thats where it will hurt most. the illegals is his problem. "someone needs to be showin me a stinkin badge: lol
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Old 01-19-2012, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
Practically if someones gets raped by a worker the contractor has a big problem regardless of past felonies. Negligent hiring exists in only half the states.

A roofer however is not considered a worker who deals with the public.
Why are you fixated on the number of states with negligent hiring laws? The fact remains, most states recognize the employers' liability in such matters, which is why the majority (28) currently have them. Moreover, employers may still be held liable for the criminal behavior of employees during work hours even in states without specific laws to address this issue. This is applicable to all employees, including roofers. Move on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
It makes no difference how many times you say it. The contractor cannot discriminate against foreign language speaker without a bonafide business reason, and, if he does so at the behest of a client they will both get sued.
The contractor is not discriminating against foreign workers; he/she is simply complying with the requirements of the client to be able to communicate with all workers assigned to their project. This is a legitimate request, and is not a violation of Title VII.

Quote:
The following are some situations in which business necessity would justify an English-only rule:

For communications with customers, coworkers, or supervisors who only speak English.
Compliance Manual Section 13: National Origin Discrimination

Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
Even more interesting the contractor can't discriminate against an illegal even though it is illegal to hire him. Once hired though he is protected by the same EEO laws as a native.
Yes, illegal aliens are protected from employment discrimination, which is a travesty given their unlawful presence and fraudulent and larcenous methods for obtaining employment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
From EEOC enforcement manual...

Title VII, the Age Discrimination in Employment Act, the Americans with Disabilities Act, and the Equal Pay Act (the EEO statutes) prohibit discrimination against employees who work in the United States for covered employers, regardless of citizenship(60) or work authorization. While federal law prohibits employers from employing individuals lacking work authorization, employers who nonetheless employ undocumented workers are prohibited from discriminating against those workers

You can fire them but you can't discriminate...
From the EEOC compliance manual. . . .

Quote:
A business with a diverse clientele may assign work based on foreign language ability. For example, an employer may assign bilingual Spanish-speaking employees to provide services to customers who speak Spanish, while assigning employees who only speak English to provide services to English-speaking customers. Of course, employers should make such assignments based on language ability.
Compliance Manual Section 13: National Origin Discrimination

Furthermore, unless the contractor meets the requirements for inclusion under the law, which most small residential contractors do not, it's a moot point.
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Old 01-19-2012, 04:38 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,711,425 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
From EEOC enforcement manual...

Title VII, the Age Discrimination in Employment Act, the Americans with Disabilities Act, and the Equal Pay Act (the EEO statutes) prohibit discrimination against employees who work in the United States for covered employers, regardless of citizenship(60) or work authorization. While federal law prohibits employers from employing individuals lacking work authorization, employers who nonetheless employ undocumented workers are prohibited from discriminating against those workers

You can fire them but you can't discriminate...
Discrimination falls under the "classes" as I linked. The Home Owner on the other hand can discriminate all they want to, it is merely the employer who can not.
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Old 01-19-2012, 06:10 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 69,881,813 times
Reputation: 27519
Just need to get more employers using e-verify when they hire.
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Old 01-19-2012, 06:12 PM
 
Location: Kenmore, WA
7,359 posts, read 6,215,390 times
Reputation: 10577
Oh my, aren't you special, Falconman. What big muscles you have....
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Old 01-19-2012, 06:24 PM
 
387 posts, read 270,626 times
Reputation: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
Discrimination falls under the "classes" as I linked. The Home Owner on the other hand can discriminate all they want to, it is merely the employer who can not.
Nope. Happens commonly in temporary agency or rent an employee arrangements. The client also gets sued and pays as well as the agent. Contractors would be no different.
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