U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-27-2012, 08:30 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,019,345 times
Reputation: 601

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by icecreamsandwich View Post
If you enter the US on a B-1 (business/pleasure) visa you're typically (in my experience watching how my parents have filled the forms) given 6 months to stay in the country at max before you have to leave. I don't know how it works for those countries who participate in the visa waiver program. In any event you can go to a state DMV office and apply for a driver's license using the one from your own country (to show that you are capable of driving), and when you apply you present your I-94 (stamped and official proof of entry to the US) and the expiration date will be tied to the one on the I-94 - it's the same day that those 6 months expire. In other words if you were to overstay, you'd be losing the legality of your entry time as well as driving on an expired license

This may be wrong as I've only watched the procedure and not performed it firsthand, but that's what ive seen - I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm mistaken

As for a "legality check" if one is a permanent resident, a permanent resident card can be used to prove it. If one entered the US legally, you should have either an I-94, or I-94W.
We're going to base a concept of being able to get a driver's license on a piece of stamped cardstock? I prompted earlier about Social Security offices supposed to accept applications for cards from an Immigrant Visa imprint, but often delaying until they could see a Resident Card. It's got to be a problem sometimes, because Resident Cards can be delayed or not received for months.

The allowed time for the VWP countries is even shorter - 90 days - than for the B1/B2. 'K'-class visas are "non-immigrant", despite the relationship to a U.S. citizen, with K-3/K-4 having a chance to be renewed indefinitely. Thanks for the input - with the background YOu are from it is an opinion to link the driver's license expiry to the visa?

I can't even get someone to give a good example of policy implementation in their state...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-27-2012, 08:48 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,715,337 times
Reputation: 299
Most states and territories use the Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements (SAVE) Program to determine a non-citizen’s eligibility for many public benefits, including the issuance of a driver’s license.

Those who come here through the VWP or simply on a visitors visa can use their home nations DL to drive here, they would be required to obtain insurance on their own.

Quote:
Several states require that a nonimmigrant have at least six months left on the Form I-20, “Certificate of Eligibility for Nonimmigrant Student Status,” or Form DS-2019, “Certificate of Eligibility for Exchange Visitor (J-1) Status,” to be eligible for a driver’s license. Either consult with the state’s or territory’s DMV or visit its website to see if this is a requirement.
http://www.ice.gov/doclib/sevis/pdf/dmv_factsheet.pdf

Driving a car in California?
If you are not a resident of California and are over 18 years old, and have a valid driver's license from your home country, you may drive here without getting a California driver's license (DL) as long as your home country license remains valid.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/dl/dl_info.htm#two500

Last edited by Liquid Reigns; 01-27-2012 at 08:56 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-27-2012, 09:20 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
443 posts, read 745,624 times
Reputation: 323
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
We're going to base a concept of being able to get a driver's license on a piece of stamped cardstock? I prompted earlier about Social Security offices supposed to accept applications for cards from an Immigrant Visa imprint, but often delaying until they could see a Resident Card. It's got to be a problem sometimes, because Resident Cards can be delayed or not received for months.

The allowed time for the VWP countries is even shorter - 90 days - than for the B1/B2. 'K'-class visas are "non-immigrant", despite the relationship to a U.S. citizen, with K-3/K-4 having a chance to be renewed indefinitely. Thanks for the input - with the background YOu are from it is an opinion to link the driver's license expiry to the visa?

I can't even get someone to give a good example of policy implementation in their state...
that's the example of policy implementation in GA atm. it might look like a simple piece of card, but the hassle you'd face if it was damaged/removed from the passport is far far FAR worse. for example, you may be unable to reenter the USA and i would imagine, could get arrested.

you're correct in that the permanent residence card might not be the best solution in that you can be in the US legally but awaiting the card - that can take a long period of time (more than a year). i'll also mention that on the occasions my parents have applied (or reapplied) for the driver's licenses it's never seemed to be anything the DMV official has been confused by - ie it's always been handled promptly once the proper documentation has been provided.

also i wanted to clarify. there's a difference between stay length, and visa length. you can have a visa (ability to enter the US) valid for 10 years, but a stay length (your amount of time you're allowed to stay in the US at once) of 6 months.

this is the link for GA's DMV. i can only mention as to GA - i have no experience with other states. hope that helps clear some of it though
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-27-2012, 09:37 PM
 
11,961 posts, read 12,455,405 times
Reputation: 2772
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
It was a dumb idea to start with. Now there are a bunch of illegals driving around the US with these so called "licenses". How many do we think are bogus? The only possible good thing about this is that these people should now have a finger print in a data base.
Is it dumb? Now we have a clue how many there were, how many were gainfully employed, by whom, where they live and so forth. They also weren't driving on the road without being tested and compelled to have insurance. So... are we going to fix immigration, or are we going to continue on with penny ante BS?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-27-2012, 09:57 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,019,345 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by icecreamsandwich View Post
that's the example of policy implementation in GA atm. it might look like a simple piece of card, but the hassle you'd face if it was damaged/removed from the passport is far far FAR worse. for example, you may be unable to reenter the USA and i would imagine, could get arrested.

you're correct in that the permanent residence card might not be the best solution in that you can be in the US legally but awaiting the card - that can take a long period of time (more than a year). i'll also mention that on the occasions my parents have applied (or reapplied) for the driver's licenses it's never seemed to be anything the DMV official has been confused by - ie it's always been handled promptly once the proper documentation has been provided.

also i wanted to clarify. there's a difference between stay length, and visa length. you can have a visa (ability to enter the US) valid for 10 years, but a stay length (your amount of time you're allowed to stay in the US at once) of 6 months.

this is the link for GA's DMV. i can only mention as to GA - i have no experience with other states. hope that helps clear some of it though
YOu are a wealth of information - I hope that YOu stick around and contribute to this forum area. At least it was my younger daughter that took so long to receive her Resident Card - Not our eldest, where it would have been more of a problem for her to start work. It was close to the expiry date on the Immigrant Visa before we received the card.

The DMV here has done fine, actually I've seen more unfamiliarity with immigration documents by the SSA (Social Security Administration) offices and Border Patrol...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-27-2012, 10:04 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,019,345 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
Most states and territories use the Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements (SAVE) Program to determine a non-citizenís eligibility for many public benefits, including the issuance of a driverís license.

Those who come here through the VWP or simply on a visitors visa can use their home nations DL to drive here, they would be required to obtain insurance on their own.

http://www.ice.gov/doclib/sevis/pdf/dmv_factsheet.pdf

Driving a car in California?
If you are not a resident of California and are over 18 years old, and have a valid driver's license from your home country, you may drive here without getting a California driver's license (DL) as long as your home country license remains valid.

Driver License and Identification (ID) Card Information
My wife's home country license expired a few weeks before we first applied for one here, under her "non-immigrant" K-3. She even had the option of an eight-year license, but we got the four-year for the cash on hand at the moment. Otherwise she wouldn't have been covered, with us trying to show merged lives in the United States as quickly as possible.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-27-2012, 11:36 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,326,175 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady View Post
Is it dumb? Now we have a clue how many there were, how many were gainfully employed, by whom, where they live and so forth. They also weren't driving on the road without being tested and compelled to have insurance. So... are we going to fix immigration, or are we going to continue on with penny ante BS?
Better that illegal aliens have NO US ID; easier to snag and deport them when picked up. A little fear put in them will cause quite a few to return home since it's too risky here.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-28-2012, 07:47 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,165,382 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
My wife's home country license expired a few weeks before we first applied for one here, under her "non-immigrant" K-3. She even had the option of an eight-year license, but we got the four-year for the cash on hand at the moment. Otherwise she wouldn't have been covered, with us trying to show merged lives in the United States as quickly as possible.
What do your remarks about your wife and step-kids have to do with illegal immigration?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-28-2012, 10:09 AM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,715,337 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
My wife's home country license expired a few weeks before we first applied for one here, under her "non-immigrant" K-3. She even had the option of an eight-year license, but we got the four-year for the cash on hand at the moment. Otherwise she wouldn't have been covered, with us trying to show merged lives in the United States as quickly as possible.
I gathered all that. I am understanding you want either the laws to be shown or that you want someone in here to implement a policy that you think will limit or prevent illegal aliens from obtaining a DL in the first place. The issue is that each state has its own criteria for obtaining the DL, in which instance illegal aliens obtain forged documents in order to get the DL, there is no fool proof prevention for the most part. As per the non-immigrant receiving a DL while here, as in your case and mine (years ago) my wife drove on her foreign license until we were able to show the required documents, which didn't take all that long to obtain once submitted.

http://www.mvd.newmexico.gov/SiteCol...%2025May11.pdf
You ask How do you develop the policy for what documents are needed for those that are not illegal aliens? (comment 25)
For NM I would first suggest removing the Matricula Consul card as proof along with the ITIN number as proof, that right there will knock down a large majority of illegal aliens from obtaining NM DL's.
Quote:
Foreign nationals who are unable to obtain a SSN must produce:
 a Matricula Consular card issued after February 1, 2005, by the Mexican Consulate in Albuquerque or El Paso;
 a valid passport issued by their country of citizenship; or
an individual tax identification number (ITIN) card or the applicant’s letter from the IRS issuing the ITIN, so long as the ITIN card or letter is accompanied by a matricula consular card (issued after February 1, 2005, by the Mexican Consulate in Albuquerque or El Paso) or a valid passport issued by their country of citizenship.
We know the Matricula Consul card is subject to fraud and should not be recognized as an acceptable form of ID, while the ITIN is used for anybody that makes money in the US, yet living in the US is not a requirement to obtain one.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-28-2012, 11:26 AM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,019,345 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
I gathered all that. I am understanding you want either the laws to be shown or that you want someone in here to implement a policy that you think will limit or prevent illegal aliens from obtaining a DL in the first place. The issue is that each state has its own criteria for obtaining the DL, in which instance illegal aliens obtain forged documents in order to get the DL, there is no fool proof prevention for the most part. As per the non-immigrant receiving a DL while here, as in your case and mine (years ago) my wife drove on her foreign license until we were able to show the required documents, which didn't take all that long to obtain once submitted.

http://www.mvd.newmexico.gov/SiteCol...%2025May11.pdf
You ask How do you develop the policy for what documents are needed for those that are not illegal aliens? (comment 25)
For NM I would first suggest removing the Matricula Consul card as proof along with the ITIN number as proof, that right there will knock down a large majority of illegal aliens from obtaining NM DL's.
We know the Matricula Consul card is subject to fraud and should not be recognized as an acceptable form of ID, while the ITIN is used for anybody that makes money in the US, yet living in the US is not a requirement to obtain one.
Great reply, I would hope it can shake the cobwebs out of YOur colleagues' thought processes. The Matricula Consular issue date (notice it in the quotation?) has much to do whether it is simplistic enough to be forged (same as for the Resident Card of years ago). YOur opinion on the ITIN is more convoluted (it is not limited to a Foreign National "making money in the United States").

An ITIN is an establishment of trying to enter the U.S. tax system. There is every large possibilities of not being based on working illegally (I can think of one close case). What identifier can be used to list a dependent on tax forms when they don't have a Social Security number?

YOur response was surprising in that it didn't refer to introducing immigration documents into the New Mexico system. There hasn't been any replies about whether licenses need to be bound to visa expiry dates. Policy in this instance can't made as to whom is disqualified, it has to be based on whom qualifies.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top