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Old 01-22-2012, 05:56 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,887,954 times
Reputation: 6517

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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
But you just said that the law doesn't matter. You would take it into your own hands as you saw fit. Why talk of the "Rule of Law", when your comment shows you don't support the basic principle?
The rule of law is 13 is not the age of consent. And yes I would would do what I saw fit with a pedophile. You may feel it is acceptable for an adult to molest your child but I do not.

 
Old 01-22-2012, 06:03 PM
 
387 posts, read 270,806 times
Reputation: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Quite literally unworthy of any reply.
A whole lot of well I think it should be this way so it should be this way.
A single 28 yr old marrying a 13 yearold is evidence that age of consent should be lowered?
That 28 yr old violated my daughter and my skills learned and proven in battle would ensure that the 28 yr old would never be found.
Perhaps some 13 yr olds are mature enough to make an informed choice. Most most likely are not. Thus the law.
None of which has anything to do with an amnesty, but you have made my point. You use weak and unfounded excuses to make your case.
I am 100% sure big business was anti- child labor laws and yet the adapted.
I know that big business was and often is still anti- OSHA and yet they adapt and change. Where is the backlash from enforcement?
By the way I work for a fortune 500 company and no we don't use illegals. A company providing temps was caught using illegals. We no longer use that company.
Nearly 50% of all paper towels sold in north America and none manufactured by using Illegal labor. What industries specifically control DC enough to create the fear you mention?
The majority of legal citizens are against an amnesty.
You know I write that stuff on the hope that you may listen. I actually have virtually no really radical views. A little libertarian but not a lot.

The marriage of the 28 and 13 was quite legal and probably saved the wife from a life of abject poverty.. Instead she ended up a Masters level RN. Still working I believe. She was of the age of consent to marry with parental permission in Alabama 52 years ago or so.

Historically the age of consent was puberty. And through much of US history that was the norm. In recent years we have driven the age older...past good sense in my mind. There are ladies who should not be married until they are in the twenties. There are other who are well capable of it in their mid teens and who will turn the local world into hell if not allowed. Don't look at me...I don't claim to understand the creatures...but I lived in a large house full of them for twenty years. And I did watch as my wife ruled.

I was an engineering executive in a Fortune 100. We certainly did not employ illegals. But the contractors that cleaned the buildings? People serving catered lunches? The crew doing the wall fininshing when we built the semiconductor facility? I would not make any bets.
 
Old 01-22-2012, 06:10 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,887,954 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
You know I write that stuff on the hope that you may listen. I actually have virtually no really radical views. A little libertarian but not a lot.

The marriage of the 28 and 13 was quite legal and probably saved the wife from a life of abject poverty.. Instead she ended up a Masters level RN. Still working I believe. She was of the age of consent to marry with parental permission in Alabama 52 years ago or so.

Historically the age of consent was puberty. And through much of US history that was the norm. In recent years we have driven the age older...past good sense in my mind. There are ladies who should not be married until they are in the twenties. There are other who are well capable of it in their mid teens and who will turn the local world into hell if not allowed. Don't look at me...I don't claim to understand the creatures...but I lived in a large house full of them for twenty years. And I did watch as my wife ruled.

I was an engineering executive in a Fortune 100. We certainly did not employ illegals. But the contractors that cleaned the buildings? People serving catered lunches? The crew doing the wall fininshing when we built the semiconductor facility? I would not make any bets.
Sounds like you dont know for a fact and thats understandable. The corporation I work for now requires all contractors to verify their employees. If they cant or refuse to do so they are removed from the acceptable contractors list. Oddly enough we don't have a problem with our contractors.
 
Old 01-22-2012, 06:13 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,386,453 times
Reputation: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
You know I write that stuff on the hope that you may listen. I actually have virtually no really radical views. A little libertarian but not a lot.

The marriage of the 28 and 13 was quite legal and probably saved the wife from a life of abject poverty.. Instead she ended up a Masters level RN. Still working I believe. She was of the age of consent to marry with parental permission in Alabama 52 years ago or so.

Historically the age of consent was puberty. And through much of US history that was the norm. In recent years we have driven the age older...past good sense in my mind. There are ladies who should not be married until they are in the twenties. There are other who are well capable of it in their mid teens and who will turn the local world into hell if not allowed. Don't look at me...I don't claim to understand the creatures...but I lived in a large house full of them for twenty years. And I did watch as my wife ruled.

I was an engineering executive in a Fortune 100. We certainly did not employ illegals. But the contractors that cleaned the buildings? People serving catered lunches? The crew doing the wall fininshing when we built the semiconductor facility? I would not make any bets.
Like so much of what you write that's a gross distortion of the facts. Historically people didn't marry until they reached menarche. And the age of menarche was much later back then than it is today -- expects estimate 16 was far more the norm than 12 or 13 than it is today. People were in no hurry to marry except among the upper classes where they had only a very limited choice of suitors. The local villagers were perfectly content to withhold marriage permission until they felt the girl in question was capable of meeting the demands of being a wife.
 
Old 01-22-2012, 06:30 PM
 
Location: OCEAN BREEZES AND VIEWS SAN CLEMENTE
19,899 posts, read 15,293,898 times
Reputation: 6451
Being honest here i go, don't care if you like what i heard or not. I recently heard a converstion while eating out with family. I heard this couple and maybe some friends, discussing this issue, they are upset with Presidents past and Mostly present on this issue.

I heard this guy say, infact the thing is the guy looked Mexican, maybe i am wrong, but that is what he looked like. I heard this guy say to his friends and maybe family don't know, the way the illegals came in, they can all go back home, the way they entered.

Agree or not with them, that is what they were discussing. Yes they were drinking and a bit loud, no i was not spying on them, when your loud your loud.

The fact that i go out to dinner and actually hear this topic being discussed, to me speaks volumes, people do care about this issue, no matter if you agree with these people or not.
 
Old 01-22-2012, 06:55 PM
 
387 posts, read 270,806 times
Reputation: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Sounds like you dont know for a fact and thats understandable. The corporation I work for now requires all contractors to verify their employees. If they cant or refuse to do so they are removed from the acceptable contractors list. Oddly enough we don't have a problem with our contractors.
Ohh...and the sales office in Paducah KY? Or the one in San Juan? Or the sales reps office in mid Ohio?

I did the management bit for a lot of years across sectional and national boundaries. Corporate has virtually no idea and no real control over the distant provinces. And smart corporations don't push it too hard. It costs an absolutely fortune to run a real tight ship...and that comes off the bottom line which shortens executive careers.
 
Old 01-22-2012, 07:01 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,012,769 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Once again never alluded to anyone being an insect. I stated why some will jump to a conclusion. I fairly illustrated several scenarios to support why. The why being who is the worst offenders. Why didnt you ask why your wife is or ford pinto? Why didnt you accuse me of comparing illegals to catholic priests or white guys? The reason was you had a mission to make it personal.
Unfair label? You constantly post in favor of amnesty's and make excuses for illegals. You constantly advocate for the illegals cause. If that isn't pro-illegal then what is?
Our private communication has come to an end and there will be no further attempts to see anything from your perspective. In short you burned the bridge.
Why bring Yac into the discussion? Yac will be fair and if she feels the need to ban me or anyone else so be it. That is her call.
The fact that you attacked my wife who isn't even a poster, the fact that you singled her out speaks volumes. I never attacked your wife and in the past have come to your defence when others have made posts that could be construed as an insult. I can only wonder about why you selected me as a target.
My comment is to why something has to get personal before it is thought of being personal. I'm going to have an affront to anyone being thought of as insects, it doesn't require it to be a family member. Alluding that your identifier of being "pro-illegal" (whether correct or not) is because family members of that member would be illegal aliens is another example.

Whether you want to get back into (what would seem to be in a "Korean-style) truce is up to you. The only reference to Yac is as the last word. Many of the members come to rely on moderator action, and will deliberately "burn" a post to get out of the discussion. Weekend talk like this even ratchets up a notch to get some digs in before Monday morning comes around.

Let's take this to the place of a formal objection. I say the term "pro-illegal" is improper to be used on the forum. It implies that the member supports (and engages) in illegal activity. Any future occurrence to label me as a "pro-illegal" will be challenged to the moderator level. This includes the perception that if I feel, at my contact with a moderator to justify why I feel that I am included, it is a label applied to a grouping of members on the forum.

You'll have to come up with some other way to describe me...
 
Old 01-22-2012, 07:09 PM
 
387 posts, read 270,806 times
Reputation: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
Like so much of what you write that's a gross distortion of the facts. Historically people didn't marry until they reached menarche. And the age of menarche was much later back then than it is today -- expects estimate 16 was far more the norm than 12 or 13 than it is today. People were in no hurry to marry except among the upper classes where they had only a very limited choice of suitors. The local villagers were perfectly content to withhold marriage permission until they felt the girl in question was capable of meeting the demands of being a wife.
Why don't you knock off the nonsense? I am wrong once in a while...but I don't make a habit of it.

I think in most societies menarche was certainly the minimum. I had a daughter who got there at ten. And was in full adult women mode at 12.

I would prefer a more late stage puberty...where the period has stabilized and is consistent.

These processes have a large variance in age. Full maturity probably ranges from 12 to close to 20.

So where should the "legal" point be? I would leave that to the family rather than statute. A statute to set the minimum age and the age at which one is self directed. But 16 is way too old for some females. And too young for others.
 
Old 01-22-2012, 07:11 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,152,437 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
My comment is to why something has to get personal before it is thought of being personal. I'm going to have an affront to anyone being thought of as insects, it doesn't require it to be a family member. Alluding that your identifier of being "pro-illegal" (whether correct or not) is because family members of that member would be illegal aliens is another example.

Whether you want to get back into (what would seem to be in a "Korean-style) truce is up to you. The only reference to Yac is as the last word. Many of the members come to rely on moderator action, and will deliberately "burn" a post to get out of the discussion. Weekend talk like this even ratchets up a notch to get some digs in before Monday morning comes around.

Let's take this to the place of a formal objection. I say the term "pro-illegal" is improper to be used on the forum. It implies that the member supports (and engages) in illegal activity. Any future occurrence to label me as a "pro-illegal" will be challenged to the moderator level. This includes the perception that if I feel, at my contact with a moderator to justify why I feel that I am included, it is a label applied to a grouping of members on the forum.

You'll have to come up with some other way to describe me...
Using the term "pro-illegal" in the context of illegal immigration does not imply that a person engages in illegal activity and you know it. It has always meant that the person advocates for, makes exuces for and defends illegal aliens including advocating for amnesty/legalization for them or at least some of them.
 
Old 01-22-2012, 07:17 PM
 
387 posts, read 270,806 times
Reputation: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
My comment is to why something has to get personal before it is thought of being personal. I'm going to have an affront to anyone being thought of as insects, it doesn't require it to be a family member. Alluding that your identifier of being "pro-illegal" (whether correct or not) is because family members of that member would be illegal aliens is another example.

Whether you want to get back into (what would seem to be in a "Korean-style) truce is up to you. The only reference to Yac is as the last word. Many of the members come to rely on moderator action, and will deliberately "burn" a post to get out of the discussion. Weekend talk like this even ratchets up a notch to get some digs in before Monday morning comes around.

Let's take this to the place of a formal objection. I say the term "pro-illegal" is improper to be used on the forum. It implies that the member supports (and engages) in illegal activity. Any future occurrence to label me as a "pro-illegal" will be challenged to the moderator level. This includes the perception that if I feel, at my contact with a moderator to justify why I feel that I am included, it is a label applied to a grouping of members on the forum.

You'll have to come up with some other way to describe me...
An exceptionally correct post.

I too will take any description as pro-illegal to the moderators as a libel.

Should be interesting.
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