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Old 01-20-2012, 09:30 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,768,384 times
Reputation: 4539

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Many pro-illegal people suggest that some kind of amnesty is needed because 12-20 million illegal aliens (or however many there are) simply can't all be rounded up and deported. While I agree that this is infeasible, it still isn't indicative of a need for amnesty.

If all taxpayer-funded benefits for illegal aliens were ended and employers started being penalized more severely and in much larger numbers for hiring illegals, many would self-deport. So, pro-illegal people, what's wrong with that?

 
Old 01-20-2012, 10:57 PM
 
387 posts, read 270,806 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
Many pro-illegal people suggest that some kind of amnesty is needed because 12-20 million illegal aliens (or however many there are) simply can't all be rounded up and deported. While I agree that this is infeasible, it still isn't indicative of a need for amnesty.

If all taxpayer-funded benefits for illegal aliens were ended and employers started being penalized more severely and in much larger numbers for hiring illegals, many would self-deport. So, pro-illegal people, what's wrong with that?
Does not work that way. Almost half are already off the books. You actually manage to tighten down on employers, which is harder than is often made out, and you simply move more to the dark side of the economy.

This is all bad for our society. What we are doing is establishing a class that works outside the system where wage and safety laws are ignored. It is not impossible to get such a class made permanent as in some European and many south American countries where actually paying your taxes is considered foolish.

The requirement is not amnesty. It is a sufficient regularization that virtually every one signs up. The right to work is probably the big carrot.

The only significant benefits available now go to legal children. There are strong constitutional reason why that won't change.

So yes the deportation is not feasible. And the self deportation will work only if you can go throught the looking glass.
 
Old 01-20-2012, 11:19 PM
 
Location: In bed with Madonna
475 posts, read 380,003 times
Reputation: 408
A lot of people get mad over the fact that illegals dont pay taxes but if they become legal they would have to, just like any other citizen in this country.
Im pro amnesty for all the illegals that dont have a criminal record.
 
Old 01-21-2012, 12:56 AM
 
4,126 posts, read 4,329,785 times
Reputation: 1610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marce30 View Post
A lot of people get mad over the fact that illegals dont pay taxes but if they become legal they would have to, just like any other citizen in this country.
Im pro amnesty for all the illegals that dont have a criminal record.
Yes, because amnesty worked so well last time.
 
Old 01-21-2012, 06:09 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,887,954 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marce30 View Post
A lot of people get mad over the fact that illegals dont pay taxes but if they become legal they would have to, just like any other citizen in this country.
Im pro amnesty for all the illegals that dont have a criminal record.
Rewarding criminal behavior is always the right answer.
 
Old 01-21-2012, 07:07 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,152,437 times
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I don't get the argument that if made legal that these illegal aliens would be then be paying income taxes. Wouldn't that also be true of an American or legal immigrant if these illegals were deported and therefore they would be working these same jobs that these illegals are instead of being unemployed? There would be a lot less population making demands on our natural resources and social infrastructures also. There wouldn't be millions of dollars being sent out of our economy by these illegals supporting families in their homelands either. Legal immigrants and citizens would be spending their earned dollars here instead.
 
Old 01-21-2012, 07:28 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 69,904,378 times
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Just like with the last amnesty, the illegals became citizens. Then the window closed and new illegals moved in and took over those jobs.

You will always have "illegals" do to off the books works unless you just have totally open borders where anyone coming here at anytime becomes a citizen.
 
Old 01-21-2012, 08:21 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,722,338 times
Reputation: 22159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marce30 View Post
A lot of people get mad over the fact that illegals dont pay taxes but if they become legal they would have to, just like any other citizen in this country.
Im pro amnesty for all the illegals that dont have a criminal record.
No they would not have to. However, many employers would dump their current bunch of illegals and simply bring in some replacements. The replacement illegals would not pay taxes and the amnestied illegals would qualify for all kinds of welfare programs when their employers let them go.

Many illegals have very large families and at best could make minimum wage after being amnestied -- and they would pay no taxes at all but get a big EITC check.
 
Old 01-21-2012, 08:22 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,722,338 times
Reputation: 22159
Leave the illegal. That keeps them from demanding social security checks when they retire and keeps some of them from getting hefty EITC checks and unemployment handouts.
 
Old 01-21-2012, 08:24 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,768,384 times
Reputation: 4539
Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
Does not work that way. Almost half are already off the books. You actually manage to tighten down on employers, which is harder than is often made out, and you simply move more to the dark side of the economy.
Some of the ones hiring illegals off the books could be caught too. Obviously it would be harder, but if a few of these employers were given huge fines and lengthy jail terms, hiring of illegals off the books would decrease significantly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
This is all bad for our society. What we are doing is establishing a class that works outside the system where wage and safety laws are ignored. It is not impossible to get such a class made permanent as in some European and many south American countries where actually paying your taxes is considered foolish

The requirement is not amnesty. It is a sufficient regularization that virtually every one signs up. The right to work is probably the big carrot.
How would amnesty or "regularization" prevent or curtail the establishment of this "class" that works outside the system? I presume that employers would be required to comply with minimum wage and labor laws with respect to the current illegals and pay required taxes for the current illegals after they were given amnesty or "regularized."

Employers who want cheaper labor will still want cheaper labor, so wouldn't new illegals come in and fill the current illegals' place (especially with amnesty attracting more illegals to the country...look at what happened after the 1986 amnesty)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
The only significant benefits available now go to legal children. There are strong constitutional reason why that won't change.
A lot of people think birthright citizenship should be ended.

Nevertheless, even with birthright citizenship being the law, taxpayer-funded benefits should be only made available to adults if they are legal themselves, regardless of whether they have illegal children who they are receiving benefits on behalf of. I believe this is already the law in a few states, at least to some degree.

Last edited by afoigrokerkok; 01-21-2012 at 08:57 AM..
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