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Old 01-22-2012, 05:31 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,884,971 times
Reputation: 6517

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Quote:
Originally Posted by thenewtexan View Post
Ask a legal immigrant what they think of this policy. They will probably tell you that people should not be rewarded for cheating. Why can't government agencies talk to one another? Get rid of the birth right, prosecute her for being here illegally, and deport both of them. There are too many people waiting in line trying to get here the legal way. It's an insult to law abiding legal immigrants.
My legal immigrant wife who is now a citizen agrees with your post. It pisses her off that illegals are demanding special rights and free pass.
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Old 01-22-2012, 05:50 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,385,999 times
Reputation: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
Well yes...that is what will likely happen. And it will probably run through the community as the protocol is worked out.

In the end the cost will in fact increase as those who were honest are sucked into the plot. Been going on for years with welfare recipients.

It is seldom a good idea to establish rules that punish good behaior while rewarding bad. Soon you get mostly bad.
Good people don't break another country's laws and expect the people there to feed them and their children.



Are there ANY punishments you would dole out to illegals?

Just keep telling the rest of the world that all you have to do to get three hundred bucks a month for food no strings attached is ignore our immigration laws and give birth here. All that will do is increase the number of greedy, lazy illegals who think Americans only exist to work to pay for things for them.
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Old 01-22-2012, 05:55 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,711,508 times
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The problem is -- our system may be able to support some limited number of American citizens with food stamps and Medicaid and so on -- but we simply cannot keep the borders open and immigration laws unenforced, allowing millions of people to simply come here illegally, overstay their visas and start giving birth to children they cannot afford and expect lifelong welfare handouts.

It's going to harm our own people, both the taxpayers and the welfare recipients with us continuing the policy of any one coming here illegally being allowed to access the welfare programs.
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Old 01-22-2012, 06:06 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,385,999 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
No...that is the problem. This particular regulation change rewards bad behaviour. You punish the illegals who are working and earning money while rewarding the welfare queen with multiple children and no income.

How does this help?
I don't want them working. In order to work they have to forge documents. Why reward people for document forgery?

The solution is simple: count the illegal's money for income purposes when calculating qualification for food stamps and other benefits. Don't count illegals when determining family members. So the sixteen hundred bucks the illegal in this story makes should be more than enough money to feed his kids. We may have a responsibility to feed his American citizen at least for now. We don't have a responsibility to feed the illegal. If the illegal does not like this the illegal can go home and take his kids with him. We have no legal or moral obligation to decide qualifications for food stamps in a way that benefits foreign nationals who break our immigration laws.

His kids share his citizenship.

I am really astonished at their nerve. I can't imagine breaking the laws of another country so brazenly and then complaining that the people of that country refuse to pay my food budget.
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Old 01-22-2012, 06:09 PM
 
387 posts, read 270,741 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Illegals working and earning money illegally you mean? Yet you would reward them with an amnesty.
This again is one of those things that blow my mind. There is no law against an illegal working. Knowingly hiring one may be a crime. Using certain false documents may be a crime. But ginning up an SS number and going to work under it is not a crime.

And no I would not provide an amnesty as it is hopelessly impractical. I would however use a right to work to get them all registered and with proper papers.

I believe in the end most will end up legal or citizens. But that is twenty or thirty years out. In the mean time we will take our revenge for violation our laws...
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Old 01-22-2012, 06:20 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,385,999 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
This again is one of those things that blow my mind. There is no law against an illegal working. Knowingly hiring one may be a crime. Using certain false documents may be a crime. But ginning up an SS number and going to work under it is not a crime.

And no I would not provide an amnesty as it is hopelessly impractical. I would however use a right to work to get them all registered and with proper papers.

I believe in the end most will end up legal or citizens. But that is twenty or thirty years out. In the mean time we will take our revenge for violation our laws...
Ninety percent of what you post in this forum is nothing more than a defense of amnesty. Why should we give illegals the right to anything more access to our court system and a huge fine for making us set up courts to be bothered with them in the first place?

Really, Olecapt, you've come out in favor of all sorts of new laws that are amnesty including the Dream act. You can't constantly make such proposals and then argue that you're doing nothing of the sort.



You want it both ways. You want the right to proclaim yourself anti-illegal while steadfastly condemning those who disagree with any of the benefits you want for them.

The article is a reasonable law. Illegals are here in violation of our laws. They should not expect us to pay their food bills just because they gave birth here. We're constantly told that illegals can't collect benefits yet all it takes are a handful of articles to prove this assertion wrong.

Face it. The American public does not want Latin America's underclass here. We certainly don't want to be taxed to support them.
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Old 01-22-2012, 07:44 PM
 
Location: GA Peach
30 posts, read 38,070 times
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According to the U.S constitution these children are American citizens. Why do people hate innocent immigrant children so much?
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Old 01-22-2012, 07:48 PM
 
791 posts, read 354,146 times
Reputation: 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
Well yes...that is what will likely happen. And it will probably run through the community as the protocol is worked out.

In the end the cost will in fact increase as those who were honest are sucked into the plot. Been going on for years with welfare recipients.

It is seldom a good idea to establish rules that punish good behaior while rewarding bad. Soon you get mostly bad.
Isn't this exactly what you advocate for our treatment of illegal immigration. You say we should legalize/regularize (where'd they come up with that word, anyway?) illegal aliens, which is a reward, while we punish the LEGAL immigrant by making him wait and follow the law.

You sure you don't want to delete that post? You've just given the 'anti's' a YEARS worth of ammo...
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Old 01-22-2012, 07:51 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,149,569 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blissfully View Post
According to the U.S constitution these children are American citizens. Why do people hate innocent immigrant children so much?
Spin, spin, spin. We don't hate the children that became instant citizens through their parent's unlawful behavior. We object to their parent's illegal presence here and their attempt to anchor themselves onto our country by giving birth and thereby being able to access our tax coffers to support them. We also object to the misinterpretation to the 14th amendment that allows this fiasco to continue.

They aren't "immigrant" children anyway if they were born here. First you call them citizens and then you call them immigrants?
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Old 01-22-2012, 08:00 PM
 
387 posts, read 270,741 times
Reputation: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
Ninety percent of what you post in this forum is nothing more than a defense of amnesty. Why should we give illegals the right to anything more access to our court system and a huge fine for making us set up courts to be bothered with them in the first place?

Really, Olecapt, you've come out in favor of all sorts of new laws that are amnesty including the Dream act. You can't constantly make such proposals and then argue that you're doing nothing of the sort.



You want it both ways. You want the right to proclaim yourself anti-illegal while steadfastly condemning those who disagree with any of the benefits you want for them.

The article is a reasonable law. Illegals are here in violation of our laws. They should not expect us to pay their food bills just because they gave birth here. We're constantly told that illegals can't collect benefits yet all it takes are a handful of articles to prove this assertion wrong.

Face it. The American public does not want Latin America's underclass here. We certainly don't want to be taxed to support them.
Actually I don't think I have ever posted in favor of amnesty.

So you either lie or don't understand. Which?

My position is and has always been very simple. It should not have happened but it did. There is no way to reverse the bad behavior of all the adminstrations since Reagan. So we have to fix it from where we are.

That requires that we reduce the illegal population to a few hundred thousand.

Now if you have a way other than providing a meaningful spif I would be glad to hear what it is.
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