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Old 02-18-2012, 08:53 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,949,633 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Good grief! Can you possibly be more obtuse?

You're fixated on the 10 million Hispanics that voted in the election, rather than understanding the issue. You keep trying to add Obama's Hispanic votes to McCain. You can't do that. The election is over, and McCain received 3.3 million Hispanic votes, period. That was the final tally. The Hispanics that chose to vote for McCain voted for him. You can't add to that. It is what it is.

There's only one question: If you eliminate the 6.7 million Hispanic votes from Obama's 67 million, would he still have had enough votes to beat McCain's 58 million?

Answer: YES

I am so sick of hearing about the "Hispanic vote" and how Hispanics alone won the White House for Obama. That's complete and utter BS. They could ALL have stayed home, and he still would have defeated McCain.

Your final sentence is precisely why there is such growing disdain. As long as you continue to try to elevate yourselves to a level of greater importance than other citizens, you only add to the divisiveness in this country. You complain about an "Us vs. Them" mentality. Yet, you do everything in your power to ensure that it continues. It used to be the Democrats will defeat you, or the Republicans will defeat you, which was understood to include all demographics. Now, all we hear is Hispanics will defeat you. It's beyond sickening.

Now, would you care to comment on the topic of this thread? Or, is your only mission to push Hispanic superiority?
Not to mention that the "hispanics" vote in their own countries and apparently don't do so well in selecting their leaders.

All one has to do is look south to see where all that "hispanic" voting power gets you. They vote but then dislike the results so much they will break any law getting into this country and next thing they insist their numbers give them extreme power and they will take over this country.

 
Old 02-18-2012, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,857,919 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Not to mention that the "hispanics" vote in their own countries and apparently don't do so well in selecting their leaders.

All one has to do is look south to see where all that "hispanic" voting power gets you. They vote but then dislike the results so much they will break any law getting into this country and next thing they insist their numbers give them extreme power and they will take over this country.
If they were half as powerful as they think, their "demands" for the legalization of their illegal brethren would be a done deal. They don't realize they're being played like a fiddle. Most illegals and their supporters despise Republicans, so Democrats know they have their votes. We already know what would have happened during the last election had they decided to stay home in protest.
 
Old 02-18-2012, 09:02 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,186,440 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
If they were half as powerful as they think, their "demands" for the legalization of their illegal brethren would be a done deal. They don't realize they're being played like a fiddle. Most illegals and their supporters despise Republicans, so Democrats know they have their votes. We already know what would have happened during the last election had they decided to stay home in protest.
They despise the Republicans mostly because they oppose amnesty and are pro-enforcement of our immigration laws. Reading some of the pro-advocate's blogs and forums would really make you sick the way they go on character assassinations of all Republicans. They act like little children rather than grown adults. It is one thing to have a different point of view but quite another to completely trash one political party the way that they do and just for wanting our immigration laws respected and enforced.
 
Old 02-18-2012, 10:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Your mistake is in believing the hispanic vote is a monolith and that every hispanic is for open borders and having no immigration laws.

Some hispanics aren't here illegally and the whole issue of unlimited illegal immigration isn't how they'll vote. Some hispanics care about the USA and respect the laws of this country, some hispanics believe in better wages --- which obviously is contrary to having unlimited immigration of cheap workers and making every job available to anyone in the world who would come to take it.

Some hispanics are even social conservatives, they don't like extreme liberalism, they don't like abortion and the forcing of religious people to participate in abortion etc, some hispanics care about the national debt, and taxes.

To insist that every hispanic wants unlimited illegal immigration or no laws whatsoever on immigration and so will vote for Obama makes you wrong.
Must be a regular thing on this topic. Nobody can read.

Where did I suggest that all Hispanic voters support illegals. Don't waste your time I did not. However it is a large majority of them who do.

In fact I agree with you that like many immigrant groups they will be quite conservative and would likely support the Republicans except for the issue of illegal hispanic immigrants. And there the Republicans lose them.

You appear to need to associate support for Hispanic illegals with an open border preference. I think not. The voting Hispanics simply don't want to deport the existing illegal populations.

And they probably have the decisive votes to defeat those who will do so. So you antis have to get it into your mind you will never win. The swing of those Hispanics to the democrats will kill any attempt at deportation every time.
 
Old 02-19-2012, 01:47 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,949,633 times
Reputation: 22174
Quote:
Originally Posted by acetic3 View Post
Must be a regular thing on this topic. Nobody can read.

Where did I suggest that all Hispanic voters support illegals. Don't waste your time I did not. However it is a large majority of them who do.

In fact I agree with you that like many immigrant groups they will be quite conservative and would likely support the Republicans except for the issue of illegal hispanic immigrants. And there the Republicans lose them.

You appear to need to associate support for Hispanic illegals with an open border preference. I think not. The voting Hispanics simply don't want to deport the existing illegal populations.

And they probably have the decisive votes to defeat those who will do so. So you antis have to get it into your mind you will never win. The swing of those Hispanics to the democrats will kill any attempt at deportation every time.
The majority of illegals are from Mexico and Mexico is a democracy, has been a democracy for over 100 years but the people of Mexico are pretty much a one-party kind of voter.

Why would they vote any more responsibly here than they did back home? Especially when it comes to the social programs like food stamps and other welfare programs that their eager acceptance of low wage jobs make necessary?

Illegals coming here can't support their many children back in their own country where the cost of living is incredibly low -- there is no way they can come here with 3rd grade educations, an inability to speak or learn English and afford our very high cost of living without the government welfare handouts.

The newly arrived immigrants are far from conservative, they want big government, they want Medicaid, free health care, food stamps, government housing. How else can you work for rock bottom wages and have many children otherwise?
 
Old 02-19-2012, 08:34 AM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,378,663 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acetic3 View Post
Must be a regular thing on this topic. Nobody can read.

Where did I suggest that all Hispanic voters support illegals. Don't waste your time I did not. However it is a large majority of them who do.

In fact I agree with you that like many immigrant groups they will be quite conservative and would likely support the Republicans except for the issue of illegal hispanic immigrants. And there the Republicans lose them.

You appear to need to associate support for Hispanic illegals with an open border preference. I think not. The voting Hispanics simply don't want to deport the existing illegal populations.

And they probably have the decisive votes to defeat those who will do so. So you antis have to get it into your mind you will never win. The swing of those Hispanics to the democrats will kill any attempt at deportation every time.
Out of all Americans who CAN vote: maybe 200 million; how many Hispanics are there, maybe 20 million, tops? That's 10 to 1 and Hispanics are LESS likely to vote than especially older anglo white people. Plus quite a few Hispanics DON'T like illegal aliens and DON'T want amnesty.

What also causes prejudice against Hispanics as a group is why so many of them DON'T want illegals deported. If those Hispanics are so "tribal"; they really need to leave the US and immigrate to Mexico.
 
Old 02-19-2012, 08:52 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,186,440 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by acetic3 View Post
Must be a regular thing on this topic. Nobody can read.

Where did I suggest that all Hispanic voters support illegals. Don't waste your time I did not. However it is a large majority of them who do.

In fact I agree with you that like many immigrant groups they will be quite conservative and would likely support the Republicans except for the issue of illegal hispanic immigrants. And there the Republicans lose them.

You appear to need to associate support for Hispanic illegals with an open border preference. I think not. The voting Hispanics simply don't want to deport the existing illegal populations.

And they probably have the decisive votes to defeat those who will do so. So you antis have to get it into your mind you will never win. The swing of those Hispanics to the democrats will kill any attempt at deportation every time.
Please pray tell why the voting Hispanics don't want to deport the existing illegal population. I think we know the reason for that and it is just plain racist IMO. There is no other way to explain it. Why kind of citizens would put their own ethnic group here illegally above the national intererests?
 
Old 02-19-2012, 02:32 PM
 
44 posts, read 35,300 times
Reputation: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Please pray tell why the voting Hispanics don't want to deport the existing illegal population. I think we know the reason for that and it is just plain racist IMO. There is no other way to explain it. Why kind of citizens would put their own ethnic group here illegally above the national intererests?
I would think it is an ethnic thing. Like 90% of Blacks voted for Obama...and 80% of Catholics voted for Kennedy.

It is however a reality as is the strong Republican opposition to amnesty.

So if we can't find a compromise we will have to make do with the way things are.

Have you ever thought about some half way steps that might help? Say increasing the immingration forces to the point at which the total number of immigrants goes down every year? Probably need to almost double it. That might be a workable compromise particularly if combined with a DREAM act.

At least we could prevent things getting worse.
 
Old 02-19-2012, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,857,919 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by acetic3 View Post
I would think it is an ethnic thing. Like 90% of Blacks voted for Obama...and 80% of Catholics voted for Kennedy.

It is however a reality as is the strong Republican opposition to amnesty.

So if we can't find a compromise we will have to make do with the way things are.

Have you ever thought about some half way steps that might help? Say increasing the immingration forces to the point at which the total number of immigrants goes down every year? Probably need to almost double it. That might be a workable compromise particularly if combined with a DREAM act.

At least we could prevent things getting worse.
Not a valid comparison. This isn't an issue of supporting one's ethnic group in a political election. At issue is the support Hispanics overwhelmingly have for Hispanics who are living in our country illegally. I don't know one black citizen who supports illegal immigration solely because a small percentage of illegal aliens are black. However, shared ethnicity seems to be the only factor to Hispanics.

Why should we compromise with foreigners who have no legal right to be here? Why aren't you and other illegal supporters helping them fight for their rights at home? After all, they have a country.
 
Old 02-19-2012, 03:29 PM
 
44 posts, read 35,300 times
Reputation: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Not a valid comparison. This isn't an issue of supporting one's ethnic group in a political election. At issue is the support Hispanics overwhelmingly have for Hispanics who are living in our country illegally. I don't know one black citizen who supports illegal immigration solely because a small percentage of illegal aliens are black. However, shared ethnicity seems to be the only factor to Hispanics.

Why should we compromise with foreigners who have no legal right to be here? Why aren't you and other illegal supporters helping them fight for their rights at home? After all, they have a country.
Neither you nor I get a vote...and I doubt very much Hispanics care what we may think. The argument on their side deals with relatives, friends, neighbors, co-workers, co-religionists etc. The illegals are significantly integrated or assimilated into the Hispanic society.

Why on earth would I want to fight for the freedom of low socio-economic Mexicans in Mexico? I care about that as much as Eleanor does. The Mexicans have to deal with that one.

We compromise because we have no better option. The situation is structured as a long term standoff. If nothing is done it will simply continue. The number of children born here will continue to increase and the portion educated in the US will get bigger and bigger. The economy shows strongs signs of a recovery which will increase the pressures for more illegal immigration.

Get some level of fix in now or we will have 15 million in five years.
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