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Old 02-18-2012, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,010,077 times
Reputation: 601

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
1) its easier to make in 1 day what it would take to make in Mexico in 1 week
2) conditions in Mexico were actually better 10-20 years ago.
Conditions in the United States were actually better 10-20 years ago...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
..."Desperate" is in fact the wrong word to use. Desperate would entail selling off everything you own in order to survive, doing things you yourself would do instead of paying a coyote to get across (how can you spend money you don't have?), etc...
There tends to be a pretty horrific "payment plan" for the coyote to reclaim that extended credit...

 
Old 02-18-2012, 10:44 AM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,766 posts, read 12,744,983 times
Reputation: 5440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
1) its easier to make in 1 day what it would take to make in Mexico in 1 week

You're being generous if you go by average income.

2) conditions in Mexico were actually better 10-20 years ago.

Not really. The mid-1990s featured a peso devaluation and a severe economic crash in Mexico, which, shockingly, coincided with a lot more immigration.

Again, coming to the USA was a rite of passage for males, it gave them faster riches to support a family back home, to become higher in their class status, nothing more.

That's great, if only it were reality. I don't doubt that some more well-off Mexicans immigrated for those reasons, but given my actual experience with so many, I'd have to say that would be about reason #92.

I defined "desperate" in my comment as pertaining to the OP and then refuted it based on 2 links. "Desperate" is in fact the wrong word to use. Desperate would entail selling off everything you own in order to survive, doing things you yourself would do instead of paying a coyote to get across (how can you spend money you don't have?), etc.

That's fantastically bad reasoning. If you are desperate, you are far more likely to make desperate decisions with what limited resources you have. If you had 10 acres of land but no money to plant crops, that land is essentially worthless.

To answer the OP, one would have to define what desperate is to them. Simply being without "food and shelter" isn't a justification to many here as commented, as once you get to this supposed new country, you would still be without food and shelter. There is no gaurantee of finding work here, unless you know somebody. So, again, the OP leaves much to the desire as to what desperate really is and for whom considers only food and shelter as being a valid reason to move thousands - tens of thousands of miles away from home with absolutely nothing and actually surviving. Reason stands alone that one would simply not do that.
You clearly ignore that if one is without food and shelter and has done everything they could to change that reality in one place without success, they really don't have anything to lose by trying somewhere else, especially in a nation that is perceived as well-off as the US is. That's basic logic and it doesn't have to be anymore complicated than that in a desperate situation. You are trying to vastly overanalyze things in order to reach the conclusion that you wouldn't be an illegal immigrant.
 
Old 02-18-2012, 10:56 AM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,282,218 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
So a country being rich means that the people are rich? So the US, which is by far the richest nation on earth, has no poverty? No homeless?
Which isn't Mexico problem to deal with, it's ours. Just like Mexico has to deal with ITS problems and don't try to palm them off on us.
 
Old 02-18-2012, 11:05 AM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,282,218 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Why would it be required to affect one segment of our population to be more of an issue? But that is back to an ethnic discussion again. Which is another topic here, as strange as that would seem.
Too many Hispanics: American and alien, both legal and illegal; give aid and comfort to the drug cartels so if things went bad, those people would be hurt first. IF the cartel wars tried to suck in NON Hispanic Americans; the fallout would be bad since so many of us Americans would look at Hispanics as a group as traitors. It's called guilt by association. I think it's sad and scary but possible.

My grandparents on back had to deal with being treated bad cause they were Irish. Things change: Ellis Island was all but shut down so there was little fresh blood coming here to either help us or hurt us. Plus many of us of Irish family here in the US stopped drinking, fighting and basically became civilized. I'm quite glad the flow of Irish was slowed down cause it gave us some breathing room, otherwise instead of being in nice homes we'd still be in the tenements.

Irish of 1910 were like Mexicans of 2012; some were good but many were bad.
 
Old 02-18-2012, 11:19 AM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,385,436 times
Reputation: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
So a country being rich means that the people are rich? So the US, which is by far the richest nation on earth, has no poverty? No homeless?
Can we ship our poor people to Mexico? What about our people with no health insurance? Mexico has national health insurance. Let's send them there. That would be fair, right? I'm sure Mexicans would be delighted to work harder and pay more taxes to help care for them . . .
 
Old 02-18-2012, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,010,077 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
Too many Hispanics: American and alien, both legal and illegal; give aid and comfort to the drug cartels so if things went bad, those people would be hurt first. IF the cartel wars tried to suck in NON Hispanic Americans; the fallout would be bad since so many of us Americans would look at Hispanics as a group as traitors. It's called guilt by association. I think it's sad and scary but possible.

My grandparents on back had to deal with being treated bad cause they were Irish. Things change: Ellis Island was all but shut down so there was little fresh blood coming here to either help us or hurt us. Plus many of us of Irish family here in the US stopped drinking, fighting and basically became civilized. I'm quite glad the flow of Irish was slowed down cause it gave us some breathing room, otherwise instead of being in nice homes we'd still be in the tenements.

Irish of 1910 were like Mexicans of 2012; some were good but many were bad.
A representation that a majority of any nationality, at any time, are "bad", is incorrect...
 
Old 02-18-2012, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,766 posts, read 12,744,983 times
Reputation: 5440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
Which isn't Mexico problem to deal with, it's ours. Just like Mexico has to deal with ITS problems and don't try to palm them off on us.
That's not the point, though. You made the implication that a rich country like Mexico doesn't have real poverty issues.
 
Old 02-18-2012, 12:05 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,282,218 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
A representation that a majority of any nationality, at any time, are "bad", is incorrect...
Counting illegal aliens and their supporters: I'm guessing over 50 percent of Hispanics in the US are bad. Take away the illegals; most of our Hispanic Americans are probably good.
 
Old 02-18-2012, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,766 posts, read 12,744,983 times
Reputation: 5440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
Can we ship our poor people to Mexico? What about our people with no health insurance? Mexico has national health insurance. Let's send them there. That would be fair, right? I'm sure Mexicans would be delighted to work harder and pay more taxes to help care for them . . .
Being that it's a nationalized system, Mexicans wouldn't necessarily pay higher taxes if Americans used it.

And again, the point wasn't that countries don't have a responsibility to help their own people, but that rich countries DO absolutely have poverty. You have repeatedly brought up obesity rates in the suggestion that no on in Mexico goes hungry. That is a mind-blowingly stupid idea.
 
Old 02-18-2012, 12:07 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,282,218 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
That's not the point, though. You made the implication that a rich country like Mexico doesn't have real poverty issues.
Which doesn't change that Mexico isn't poor and they still need to take care of their own instead of prodding their poor people to come to the US illegally.
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