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Old 02-18-2012, 02:45 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,711,425 times
Reputation: 299

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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
There tends to be a pretty horrific "payment plan" for the coyote to reclaim that extended credit...
That "extended credit" is usually less then half the total owed as the coyote requires most money up-front. 10,000$ - 20,000$ Pesos is a years salary in Mexico up front, the other $500 to $1000 is the "payment plan".

 
Old 02-18-2012, 03:03 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,711,425 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
You clearly ignore that if one is without food and shelter and has done everything they could to change that reality in one place without success, they really don't have anything to lose by trying somewhere else, especially in a nation that is perceived as well-off as the US is. That's basic logic and it doesn't have to be anymore complicated than that in a desperate situation. You are trying to vastly overanalyze things in order to reach the conclusion that you wouldn't be an illegal immigrant.
I've ignored nothing, I merely see things differently than you do and would do things differently then you obviously would. Perception is everything, yet means literally nothing. Desperation usually entails stupidity, as I said the word choice is incorrect. Over analyzing? No more than you claiming peoples comments aren't "honest".

Economics is but part of the reasons they come (a contributing factor), it is not the sole reason they come, as there is no sole reason alone. For some it is a rite of passage as I have shown, for others it is about class status as I have also stated (which would be considered an economic reason). Many are sent here by their families to supplement their family income, in order to do this they must sell items or save money in order to pay the way here, this money is usually equal to 1 years salary in Mexico, so why would it be logical to spend 1 years salary if you were "desperate" - starving and no shelter - to go to a place that there is no more guarantee that you will better your status?

The entire point of my comments is to get you to simply understand that who are you to tell someone their comments aren't truthful, claim they are on some soap box, yet here you are doing the exact thing you claim others have done.
 
Old 02-18-2012, 03:52 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,282,218 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
That goes without saying in an illegal immigration forum. That said, we are not discussing that aspect of the situation, and it seems like the repetitive nature of that argument is now just being thrown out when other lines of discussion are clearly lost.
Which doesn't change the FACT that ALL illegal aliens break the law off the bat. Maybe in your world being illegal is OK; in MY world it isn't. Although would you feel that same way about an Guatemalan in Mexico illegally?
 
Old 02-18-2012, 04:10 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,881,481 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
You clearly ignore that if one is without food and shelter and has done everything they could to change that reality in one place without success, they really don't have anything to lose by trying somewhere else, especially in a nation that is perceived as well-off as the US is. That's basic logic and it doesn't have to be anymore complicated than that in a desperate situation. You are trying to vastly overanalyze things in order to reach the conclusion that you wouldn't be an illegal immigrant.
Do you have any facts to back up the theory that illegals who flee their country do so due to starvation and no shelter? The majority of which come from Mexico. How many people starve to death in mexico per year?
 
Old 02-18-2012, 04:14 PM
 
Location: Chicago metro
3,375 posts, read 7,045,389 times
Reputation: 1853
Quote:
Originally Posted by bumpus7 View Post
.
If you were from another country, would
You Sneak Into The U.S.A. Illegally to work
and feed yourself, and your family.

Or would you stay where you are and
do with out food and shelter etc.

Be Honest ! ! !
.
I wouldn't do it, too risky for my style. Well, at least not by literally entering over via small boat or jumping fences and bypassing border patrol. The only way I see myself living in another country illegally is by first entering legally with a visa or passport and then overstaying pass the expiration date. That seems to be the safest way to live in another country illegally. But all this is just talk from someone who never been out the country for over a few days. Who knows what I might do if I were put under harsh conditions. For me, it would greatly depends on the country I am trying to escape from. If I were from a hell zone country like Somalia, where there isn't even a government, and my chances of getting a good enough job is nearly down to zero, I probably would take drastic measures and enter somewhere like the USA or UK, or even South Africa, illegally and do it in border jumping fashion or by some other bold way.

Last edited by Chicagoland60426; 02-18-2012 at 04:29 PM..
 
Old 02-18-2012, 04:23 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,385,436 times
Reputation: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Being that it's a nationalized system, Mexicans wouldn't necessarily pay higher taxes if Americans used it.

And again, the point wasn't that countries don't have a responsibility to help their own people, but that rich countries DO absolutely have poverty. You have repeatedly brought up obesity rates in the suggestion that no on in Mexico goes hungry. That is a mind-blowingly stupid idea.
Are you seriously suggesting that if more sick people used Mexico's health care system costs would not go up?



The point is simple. Mexico is a functional society. The have huge numbers of people who are not only not starving but actually overfed. They have the world's 12th largest economy. Mexico is home to the world's richest man and several other billionaires.

The only mind blowingly stupid idea is that Mexicans have some sort of inherent right to move to America in complete violation of American laws. If we say no they have no legal or moral right to say tough and sneak in. If conditions are less than idea for Mexico's underclass that is Mexico's underclass's problem to solve not America's. I'm sick of Mexico's arrogant leaders and their ludicrous desire to tell me otherwise.
 
Old 02-18-2012, 04:33 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,385,436 times
Reputation: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Bad in what way? They aren't causing more crime, as all levels of crime are at their lowest levels in 40 years. Murder isn't even a top 15 cause of death anymore. So in what measurable ways are they "bad" people?
Wages haven't risen in many decades and income inequality is at an all time high. Illegals lower wages, drive on roads without insurance, run from medical bills, overcrowd schools and increase anarchy by breaking multiple American laws at every turn.

They're a pain in the rear and a burden on many American citizens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
I have run a stop light. When I was a kid I stole candy. Am I a bad person?

Do circumstances play absolutely no role in crimes? For example, if you kill someone for no reason, in your view is it the same as killing someone who breaks into your home? According to your logic above, any and all actions are at the same level.
Maybe some of us think the first thing you do when you go to another country is NOT break their laws. And if you break their laws you could at least have the grace NOT to call natives nasty names when they ask you to leave.
 
Old 02-18-2012, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Chicago metro
3,375 posts, read 7,045,389 times
Reputation: 1853
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKEETC View Post
Yes. It would be a matter of immediate self-preservation which I think is a basic human instinct. But it would be only temporary. I would not:
  • Accept my illegal status and do nothing about it;
  • Demand that citizens and legal immigrants of the 'host' nation resolve my status for me;
  • Demand the rights and privileges that are reserved for citizens and legal immigrants of the 'host' nation;
  • Demand services and benefits from the government of the 'host' nation to which I am not entitled;
  • Use my illegal status to forego the responsibilities and obligations that would be due if I was a citizen or a legal immigrant of the 'host' nation;
  • Allow my children to continue the cycle of poverty and ignorance; and
  • Have the audacity and arrogance to argue and think that I belong here and that the government of the 'host' nation has no authority to deport me and execute efforts to do so.
[and I would not blatantly and proudly wave the flag of my home country, in turn insulting the 'host' country, because if it was that great then what am I doing here?]
This
 
Old 02-18-2012, 05:27 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
No. First, I think we all agree that the illegal population grew for the last few decades. It may have slowed down or stopped in places the last few years, but before that, it was a strong growth. If what you're suggesting is true, that illegals are causing a lot of crime and rates would be lower if they weren't here, how exactly do you reconcile a fast-growing illegal population with continuously falling crime rates? That makes absolutely no sense. Also, why would illegals go out of their way just to come here and commit crimes and draw attention to themselves, the opposite of what they would logically want?
Our falling crime rate -- thank the prisons for that.


The USA has more people in prison than just about any country, three strikes laws are taking many murderers and rapists INCLUDING the illegal who are here murdering and raping off the streets.

Mangan's: The Cost to California of Illegals in Prison

The Public Policy Institute of California states that 38% of the entire prison population is Latino. Absent illegal immigration over the past several decades, California would have a much smaller Hispanic population.
 
Old 02-18-2012, 05:32 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
A representation that a majority of any nationality, at any time, are "bad", is incorrect...
Then why is Mexico so adamantly opposed to getting them back and also so in favor of getting rid of them?

If they were any good, their own country wouldn't be so eager to be permanently rid of them.
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