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Old 02-19-2012, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,766 posts, read 12,748,545 times
Reputation: 5440

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
Are you seriously suggesting that if more sick people used Mexico's health care system costs would not go up?



It would depend on how much the government would subsidize. Costs wouldn't necessarily go up for patients, but they'd certainly go up for the government.

The point is simple. Mexico is a functional society. The have huge numbers of people who are not only not starving but actually overfed. They have the world's 12th largest economy. Mexico is home to the world's richest man and several other billionaires.

In the US, some of the poorest people are also the most obese. You are confusing weight with being well fed, but that's very simplistic and does not address how food costs relate to health. BTW, I live in Mexico City, and here at least, there simply are NOT that many obese people. I have almost never seen a truly obese person here. I suspect this has to do with the overall urban environment and people who are more well-off than the nation as a whole, though.

The only mind blowingly stupid idea is that Mexicans have some sort of inherent right to move to America in complete violation of American laws.

I agree, that's a dumb idea. Good thing no one is promoting that.

If we say no they have no legal or moral right to say tough and sneak in. If conditions are less than idea for Mexico's underclass that is Mexico's underclass's problem to solve not America's. I'm sick of Mexico's arrogant leaders and their ludicrous desire to tell me otherwise.
I love how it has become a virtue for the anti-immigration crowd to believe that nothing outside of the US border matters.

 
Old 02-19-2012, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,766 posts, read 12,748,545 times
Reputation: 5440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
Wages haven't risen in many decades and income inequality is at an all time high. Illegals lower wages, drive on roads without insurance, run from medical bills, overcrowd schools and increase anarchy by breaking multiple American laws at every turn.

It's funny how you think all of that is really about illegals and not about government promoting a widening of the economic classes.

They're a pain in the rear and a burden on many American citizens.

People who don't understand context and promote thinly-veiled discrimination as sensible international policy, I'm guessing, are a bigger danger.

Maybe some of us think the first thing you do when you go to another country is NOT break their laws. And if you break their laws you could at least have the grace NOT to call natives nasty names when they ask you to leave.
Considering all the lovely things said about them here, it's really shocking you guys don't have a better relationship.
 
Old 02-19-2012, 12:22 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by gysmo View Post
what are you talking about blacks weren't even allowed leave their plantations!! if they could take of thier chackels they would have been running to the border! yes black people had it much worse 1000 times! all i have to say if the shoe was on the other foot you yes you would be doing the same thing!!
He wasn't referring to slavery, and I think you know that. He was referring to black citizens fighting and dying for rights during the Civil Rights Movement. He was referring to black citizens refusing to be treated like second-class citizens, and being denied basic human dignity. They fought. They didn't run like cowards and enter another country illegally, and expect its citizens to embrace them and support their families. And, they endured far worse treatment in this country than illegal aliens in theirs.

The citizens of this country are entitled to oppose unjust laws and fight to have them changed. Conversely, non-citizens, especially illegal non-citizens, have no such right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by acetic3 View Post
They of course broke the law of the US and that of the states in which they resided...repeatedly and with malice. And they were aided by those who loved freedom and lived in other states. And they broke the Jim Crow laws in another era. You are unaware that Rosa Parks broke local law?
Yes, as others have stated, they broke the laws in THEIR country, and fought for rights in THEIR country. Did Rosa Parks go to another country and refuse to give up her seat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by acetic3 View Post
And they most certainly ran to Canada for freedom. See the underground railroad.
Stop deliberately conflating slavery and the Underground Railroad with the Civil Rights Movement. Who wouldn't flee from the atrocities of slavery? But, are Mexicans and other illegals fleeing slavery?

Tell me, how many Mexicans are being lynched in Mexico for being brown? How many Mexicans are forced to drink from brown water fountains, or use brown restrooms? How many Mexicans are being hosed by police, or attacked by their dogs for daring to oppose Mexico's racist laws? How many Mexicans are having their churches bombed and their children murdered for no other reason than their brown skin? The list goes on, but I think you catch my drift.

Quote:
Originally Posted by acetic3 View Post
You rant about excess children when in fact the birth rate in Mexico is only a small amount higher than that of the US. You appear to be building the case that you are bigotted against Mexico but trying to hide in in inane argument about Mexican behavior.
Yes, the birth rate has lowered in Mexico. However, when their illegal citizens come here, they give birth at extremely high rates. In fact, their births account for the majority of the increase in this country. Funny how WIC, welfare, and myriad other freebies changes their behavior.

Quote:
Originally Posted by acetic3 View Post
Dred Scott decision...

Referring to the language in the Declaration of Independence that includes the phrase, "all men are created equal," Taney reasoned that "it is too clear for dispute, that the enslaved African race were not intended to be included, and formed no part of the people who framed and adopted this declaration. . . ."

So you would not have parted company with a Supreme Court Justice who determined that blacks could never be US Citizens?

According to the Supreme Court that was the democratically decided upon law.

So you would have kept those Ni**ers in their place?
Is that our current law? Of course not! And, you know it. Or, at least you should.

The fact that you used the "N" word indicates more about YOU, than the laws during that era. I know, I know, that's what THEY called black folks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient View Post
If a person really was destitute enough and they had the opportunity to come here and do better, of course they would come. It's easy for Americans with a reasonable standard of living to say "no, I would never do that." That's all BS.
Most illegal aliens are Mexican, and they are far from destitute. In fact, Mexico has a low unemployment rate, and one of the highest obesity rates in the world. Furthermore, the average illegal from Mexico was employed there, and only came here for a pay increase, and to avail themselves of our tax-funded benefits. If they were truly destitute, they couldn't afford to pay coyotes thousands of dollars, could they?

Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
Do you believe Martin Luther King was wrong for disrespecting Jim Crow laws?
Again, there is no valid comparison to be made between black citizens opposing bigoted laws and fighting for rights in THEIR country, and hordes of illegals fleeing like cowards for greener pastures in the USA. If they had gumption, like MLK, they wouldn't be here. They would remain home, and fight to make it better, like MLK did in HIS country. Stop making excuses for these cowards, thieves, and parasites.

It takes a lot of damn nerve to even attempt to compare the plight of black citizens to illegal aliens. It only serves as evidence of your extreme desperation and lack of anything even marginally substantive to offer as justification for illegal immigration. Pathetic!
 
Old 02-19-2012, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Houston
20,990 posts, read 10,627,451 times
Reputation: 8217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post


American labor leaders fought long and hard for the right to overtime, unemployment insurance, social security, minimum wage and the right to be treated like a human being instead of a slave. Martin Luther King would not have approved of those who willfully demand the right to subvert those laws.
Yep, they fought long and hard to deprive the employer and his employee of a basic human right. The right to determine their own destiny without the hindrance of a tyrannical government.
 
Old 02-19-2012, 12:28 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,385,999 times
Reputation: 2345
It would depend on how much the government would subsidize. Costs wouldn't necessarily go up for patients, but they'd certainly go up for the government.

Who do you think funds the government? THE TAXPAYERS.

Sheesh.

In the US, some of the poorest people are also the most obese. You are confusing weight with being well fed, but that's very simplistic and does not address how food costs relate to health. BTW, I live in Mexico City, and here at least, there simply are NOT that many obese people. I have almost never seen a truly obese person here. I suspect this has to do with the overall urban environment and people who are more well-off than the nation as a whole, though.

Again NOT MY PROBLEM. Mexico's poverty is not my concern nor is it my problem as a US taxpayer to solve.

I agree, that's a dumb idea. Good thing no one is promoting that

That's the implication of your words.

I love how it has become a virtue for the anti-immigration crowd to believe that nothing outside of the US border matters.

Illegals are not immigrants. I am sorry the pro-illegal crowd can't tell the difference between someone who respectfully follows our laws and someone who brazenly violates them. Mexicans do not have the inherent right to ignore our democracy, override our laws and invade our country. I am sorry you and they seem to think they do. One of my neighbors is unemployed. Thankfully he does not share your belief that this gives him the right to move into my house without permission.
 
Old 02-19-2012, 12:32 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,766 posts, read 12,748,545 times
Reputation: 5440
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Our falling crime rate -- thank the prisons for that.


The USA has more people in prison than just about any country, three strikes laws are taking many murderers and rapists INCLUDING the illegal who are here murdering and raping off the streets.

Mangan's: The Cost to California of Illegals in Prison

The Public Policy Institute of California states that 38% of the entire prison population is Latino. Absent illegal immigration over the past several decades, California would have a much smaller Hispanic population.
That's just ridiculous. This theory would require that criminals no longer exist in the same numbers in the general population. Also, it ignores that the vast majority of Hispanics, legal or illegal, are NOT in prison, and that the Hispanic population continues to grow, not just in California, but nationally. Yet every state is experiencing crime drops, and have been since the end of the crack epidemic of the early 1990s. So either there are no more criminals or a growing Hispanic population doesn't increase crime rates. The idea that there is a set limit of criminals in society and that they are all now locked up seems laughably silly at best.
 
Old 02-19-2012, 12:32 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,011,547 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
I just found out the sad case of Miguel, also here illegally from Mexico.

He has a girlfriend and kids here but his girlfriend won't sponsor him, won't marry him either to make it very easy for him to get his papers. He's got a common-law spouse and his kids are US citizens.

Now why won't Miguel's common-law wife sponsor him? Because she doesn't want a husband that would cause her to lose her nice welfare benefits. So Miguel is pretty sad, his papers are ever so close but yet so far because she likes having his unreported income to give her all the extras that her welfare handouts don't give. Miguel has to mind his manners because if he goofs up, he too could be deported - and his girlfriend, the mother of his kids doesn't really give a damn. Not when it's a choice between him and the welfare life.
But YOu've described this story before. Whom YOu call Miguel's "common-law wife" would have to be a U.S. citizen to sponsor him (the basics of an I-601), and they have to be legally married (USCIS does not recognize a "common-law" relationship). With that sort of misrepresentation, who can believe anything YOu say?
 
Old 02-19-2012, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,766 posts, read 12,748,545 times
Reputation: 5440
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
And Mexico is most likely the main consumer of illegal weapons and ammunition from the USA, the same people, the same vicious criminals that bring in the drugs, supply the weapons to their own country.

This alone is reason enough to enforce the border but the wide open border benefits these nasty killers.
Outside of the cartels, there is virtually no gun culture in Mexico like there is in the US. People just don't own them.

And for the record, I've always been for stronger border controls, but it seems that most people here are less concerned about having a reasonable discussion on changing the system than they are about maligning illegals as the minions of Satan hell-bent on destroying America. It's unfortunate that the entire immigration debate so often devolves into stereotypes, racism, and ignorance.
 
Old 02-19-2012, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
Yep, they fought long and hard to deprive the employer and his employee of a basic human right. The right to determine their own destiny without the hindrance of a tyrannical government.
Right. If not for our labor laws, employers would be "free" to pay whatever they desired. How does 50 cents an hour sound to you, with no break period, and unlimited work hours? After all, why should a tyrannical government hinder employers by forcing them to treat employees like human beings?
 
Old 02-19-2012, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,766 posts, read 12,748,545 times
Reputation: 5440
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Mexico has a growing middle class and to deny that is an out-and-out lie.

In Mexico if someone chooses to stay in school, finish his or her education, get a job and some job skills, and marry before starting a family that individual stands a very good chance of joining Mexico's growing middle class.

The irresponsible however who choose to drop out of school at very young ages, and start having children they cannot afford of course find coming to the USA illegally very appealing. It takes zero effort to simply come to the USA and give birth here expecting huge rewards for doing nothing more than that.

In Mexico it requires some effort, some study, some self-control to get ahead.
Mexico does have a growing middle class, but it also has a growing population in poverty. Just like in the US, economic classes are getting further apart.

As far as the rest of your post goes, it's funny to see you trying to act like you know what people go through.
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